Tuesday, February 14, 2012

A Response to "Joel Richardson's" Prophecy Problems

Updated and Moderately Revised 8 March 2016 

14 February 2010: Most of us are by now very familiar with the Eastern Leg-Islamic Antichrist proponent known by the alias "Joel Richardson." Some of us are even aware of the fact that he is a man whom It's Supernatural! talk show host Sid Roth declared was "hand-picked literally by God to give revelation of the end time." "Joel" agrees with him and declared on that program that the Lord did indeed anoint (Hebrew: mashach) him through the word of a prophetess who prayed over his future wife and some unknown speaker in a 7,000-seat civic center meeting. A couple of weeks ago this mashach "prophet" spoke exclusively again through the internet medium known as WorldNetDaily, and the topic of his divine revelation was "Does Psalm 83 Describe The Next MidEast War?"

Needless to say, "Joel" writes about some perceived problems with the "widespread" view that yours truly and many other far more prominent prophecy authors, ministers, teachers and students hold that Psalm 83 awaits an imminent final fulfillment prior to the 70th Week. I happen to believe that Psalm 83 has been in the process of a literal fulfillment since May of 1948, but you already knew that by reading the previous posts to this blog. So off we go to address a couple "Joel's" problems with our Psalm 83 interpretation. Before I begin, let me say that I think it is obvious that "Joel's" intent with his article is to attempt to gain some notoriety for himself (and his WorldNetDaily-published books) by opposing the majority view interpretation of Psalm 83. He has not succeeded in this endeavor as will now become conclusively demonstrated.
Joel: "The first problem is that most scholars reject the idea that Psalm 83 is even an actual prophecy, but is simply, “a national prayer of lament.” Such a Psalm would not be considered a prophecy in the sense of that which was uttered by the biblical prophets."
This statement is in error on several counts. First, most Bible scholars do not reject the idea that Psalm 83 is an actual prophecy. They understand it to be a prophetic imprecatory prayer. Secondly, these scholars hold to this understanding because they know the Bible and are acutely aware that the Bible declares the writer of Psalm 83, Asaph the Levite priest assigned by King David "to minister before the Ark of the Lord, and to record, and to thank and praise the Lord God of Israel: Asaph the chief..." was a prophet!!! (see: 1 Chronicles 16:4-5).  Crucially, and to the point, 1 Chronicles 25:2 declares: "Of the sons of Asaph: Zaccur, Joseph, Nethaniah, and Asharelah; the sons of Asaph were under the direction of Asaph, who prophesied (Heb: naba' - to prophesy under influence of Divine Spirit) according to the order of the king." Even thereafter, in 2 Chronicles 29:30 we read: "Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer (Hebrew: chozeh - a seer, a prophet)." Therefore, as we can clearly see through God's Word, Asaph was most definitively a prophet, and Psalm 83 is a prophecy no different than any other prophecy in Lord's Inerrant Word.
Joel: "...Asaph, the writer of this Psalm, mentions that “Assyria” will join this coalition. When this Psalm was written during the reign of King David, the Kingdom of Assyria included portions of modern-day Iraq, Syria and Turkey."
Not quite an accurate statement Mr. Richardson, not quite an accurate statement. In the hundred year period circa 1000-900 BC during which Asaph wrote wrote the God-breathed Psalm 83, Assur (Assyria) was in full retreat from the lands it had occupied to the west of the Euphrates River, and was centered in modern-day Iraq in the Tigris and Euphrates valleys as seen in this map courtesy of the Assyrian National News Agency. Who knows Assyrian history better, the modern descendants of ancient Assyria or "Joel Richardson?" Sorry, but one cannot cook a "Turkey" that is not in the Psalm 83 pot.

Additionally, the full context of verse 8 in Psalm 83 is that Assur would be of assistance or lend strength or of help to the "children of Lot" during the fulfillment of this prophecy. That has been the fact of the matter as I see it since the first Arab-Israel war of 1948, the Six Day War of 1967 and the Yom Kippur War of 1973 when Iraqi generals were commanders of the Arab forces and placed large numbers of their troops on the front lines with the Syrians and Jordanian armies. In particular, the Yom Kippur War of 1973 saw a squadron of Iraqi Air Force jets operating against Israel from an Egyptian airfield and an Iraqi division of 18,000 troops along with 800-some odd main battle tanks alongside Syrian troops in the Golan. This is fact and validates verse 8 irregardless of what might occur in the coming concluding battles of the Psalm 83 war.

As for Joel Richardson's assertion that Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38/39 are the same war, well, let's just say that such an idea would be so thoroughly and easily refuted and rebuked by a routine, Berean-style one-on-one comparison of the texts that it would be a complete waste of my time and yours to address them here. Of course, it stands to reason via plain logic that if Joel wants to make this argument and thereby make Asaph a prophet no different than Ezekiel, then he has immediately contradicted himself regarding his initial argument that Asaph was not a prophet. That makes three strikes and an out.

UPDATE 19 February 2012: As expected "Joel Richardson" has problems with "some prophecy blogs," but only bothered to link to this Eschatology Today blog in his response. So therefore, his problem is not with what others have written, but what I have written above in rebuttal to his WND nonsense. The issue with his response is that "Joel" does not even come close to addressing the two key issues I raised with respect to his WND article.

As anyone can clearly be informed of the first of the two specific issues I raised in the original article above were related to Asaph being identified in God's Word as a "chozeh," the Hebrew word meaning a seer, a prophet; and that Asaph prophesied accordingly to King David. My simple citation of just three verses from 1 and 2 Chronicles destroyed the foundation of the attempt to teach that Psalm 83 is not a prophecy. Who dares deny the Word of God?

The second specific issue I addressed above related to the one-word mention of Assur in verse 8 of Psalm 83. "Joel's" assertion was that circa David's Kingdom (1020-930 BC) Assyria was the occupier of modern-day Iraq, Syria and Turkey. As proven with an modern-day Assyrian map, Assur in the historical period of Asaph's prophecy was confined to the Tigris and Euphrates valley of the central Mesopotamian plains of modern-day Iraq.Case closed, issue resolved.

Being unable to overcome the primary points of the rebuttal of his WND piece "Joel" then made an attempt to switch the focus and gain traction via some other issue of minor relevance. In this particular instance he sets sail on a fanciful journey of false historical narrative and incorrect historical geographic associations. The bottom line in the failure to distract from the real issues of the rebuttal is as follows. Instead of referring to Russians, or Georgians or other Caucasian peoples north and northeast of the Black Sea, the ancients referred to these nations by their Biblical names. For example, with respect to Magog, these people were identified as Scythians by Josephus in the first century AD (Antiquities I, vi. 1). The Scythians without question inhabited modern-day Russia. Five hundred years prior to Josephus there was the Greek historian Herodotus who located the Scythians, also known as the Sacae tribes in his time, as inhabiting what we know today as modern-day Ukraine. These identifications and geographic are unassailable historical facts.

What Christians have known for a very long time regarding the identification of "Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal," (Ezekiel 38:2 NKJV) is correct and they should avoid whenever possible the current (I would say temporary) false teaching in this regard as espoused by "Joel Richardson" and a select few others of the genre.

Instead we would all be far better served to read the research published by Xulon Press in 2003 as written by Dr. Jon Mark Ruthven and Dr. Ihab Griess, in their free-of-charge .pdf tome, "The Prophecy That is Shaping History; New Research on Ezekiel's Vision of the End." The research contained herein is an exemplary of proper hermeneutic in practical application. I would strongly recommend all readers to download (right click and "Save As") Dr. Ruthven's book and to read it at your leisure. Happy reading.

Addendum: In "Joel Richardson's" response to this article, "Where Is Magog, Meshech and Tubal?," he attempts to conclude that ONLY the modern day nation of Turkey is representative of the several nations and peoples named by God for Ezekiel to prophesy against, to include specifically: Magog, Mechech, Tubal, Gomer and Togarmah. This strongly infers that the man who is to be Gog is a modern day Turk from modern day Turkey, and therefore he is a Sunni Muslim.

Did you get that? Gog will be a modern-day Turkish Sunni Muslim. One has to read these theories very carefully to see the nonsensical rubbish they want you accept as they build their house of cards premise for an Islamic Antichrist and his Eastern Leg-only world conquering Islamic Empire. "Joel Richardson" is hereby attempting to lure folks into believing, for the price of his previous and forthcoming book, that Gog and the Antichrist of the 70th Week and Revelation are one and the same man. The truly essential  point here is that "Joel Richardson" and his fellow travelers do accept and believe in propagating utterly false Islamic eschatology as fact and as an equal to Bible prophecy and its coming fulfillments. It also has escaped the proponents of this nonsense that in no way whatsoever would the Turks of modern-day Turkey able to fulfill the requirement according the the prophecy of the angel Gabriel: "And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary." As we all know the legions of the Roman Empire destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. At that same time the Turks were nomadic tribes on the steppes of Asia.

And so this is where the entire Islamic Antichrist-Eastern Leg house of cards theorem finally collapses upon its own weight. The prophetic Word of God in Ezekiel 39:11-16 unambiguously tells all of us that Gog and his military coalition will fail in their invasion attempt and that Gog himself will be buried in Israel. Period, end of Gog, and the end of that specific coalition of nations - permanently. "Joel Richardson" and all of his fellow travelers who agree with him conveniently ignore or look past this prophetic Word of God fact. It's an inconvenience to them, nothing more. Move along, nothing more to see here. Bereans they are not.

In understanding the prophetic fulfillment and future fact that Gog and his entire coalition of armies are completely annihilated by God on the "mountains if Israel," then who, pray tell, would be the Antichrist and his military forces we read about elsewhere in the Word of God? Obviously the Antichrist is not Gog of Magog (Gog of Turkey according to "Joel Richardson") and the entire plethora of his numerous man-made references to this effect are, at the minimum, in gross error in their identification of the lands of Magog, Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. And just as obviously the national origin identification of the Antichrist given by the angel Gabriel in Daniel 9:26b as coming from "the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary," as fulfilled in 70 AD by General Titus Flavius Vespasianus and his several Roman Legions** confirms a Roman, Greek or Western European origin for this man of sin, the son of perdition.

**Historical data indicates that following the Roman civil war that erupted with Emperor Nero's death in 68 AD and concluded with Emperor Vespasian being confirmed by the Roman Senate on 21 December 69 AD, two Roman Legions, Legio V Macedonica and Legio  XV Apollinaris, began their Judean deployment via eastern Mediterranean seaports in the Roman provinces of Phoenicia (modern-day Lebanon) and Samaria (modern-day Israel) in the early months of 70 AD direct from the former European civil war arena. These are European troops, not Arabs as claimed by the Islamic Antichrist theorists.

At this point I need to say that the nations represented in Ezekiel 38:6 by Gomer and Togarmah might well be a different matter than discussed above, and might well indicate both a Turkish and Caucasian nation(s) participation in this attempted invasion. But, again, the prophetic truth in the sum of Ezekiel's prophesy is that they are secondary players not meriting a mention in chapter 38 until verse 6, definitively after the mentioning of Iran (Paras), Sudan (Kuwsh) and Libya (Puwt). These five nations are all of secondary importance because they are omitted completely in the text of Ezekiel 39 where God again repeats in verse 1, the primary importance of "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal."

Additionally, if one researches the history of the Turks in modern day Turkey one would learn that they arrived in this land from Central Asia in the early part of the 11th century (1092 AD) following their invasion of Persia. The modern Turks are the descendants of the ancient Seljuk Turks who descended from the more ancient Oghuz Turkic peoples of north-central Asia. The historical fact is that the approximately 52-year lifespan of Ezekiel (c. 622 to 570 BC) pre-dates any Turkic presence in Anatolia (the ancient name for Turkey) and for the entirety of the 1,600 year long era of classical antiquity (600 BC through 1000 AD). The forebears of the modern Turkish nation were living in regions anywhere from 2,500 to 3,500 miles northeast of present day Turkey. Do any of the Genesis 10 Table of Nations names given by God for Ezekiel to prophesy against 2,600 years ago reference modern day Turks? No, they apparently do not. They reference locations associated with the names only of Gomer and Togarmah who today are a multi-ethnic mix of the original inhabitants and invaders from the far northeast of Asia.

"Joel" also states: "23.) Author Joel C. Rosenberg also places both Meshech and Tubal in modern day Turkey."

That's not entirely accurate "Joel." From today's entry (22 FEB 2012) on Joel C. Rosenberg's blog, I quote with emphasis added:

"Another question I’m getting asked these days: Is Putin “Gog,” the evil leader described in the prophecies of Ezekiel 38-39? It came up during my recent speaking tour in Florida, and in a talk I gave to a group on Capitol Hill last week? Thus far, my answer remains the same — Putin is certainly “Gog-esque,” but it is too early to speculate on whether he is actually the biblical figure that will rise to power in Russia (known in Ezekiel’s prophecy as “Magog”) in the last days and build an alliance with Iran (“Persia”), Sudan (“Cush”), Turkey (“Gomer”), Libya and Algeria (“Put”), the countries of Central Asia (“Beth Togarmah”) to attack the State of Israel from “the north” (probably via Lebanon and Syria). That said, it is fair to say that geopolitical events over the past decade — and certainly over the past year or so — have been moving on a trajectory consistent with the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38-39. That doesn’t necessarily mean we will see the prophecies come to complete fulfillment in our lifetime or soon, but we cannot rule out the possibility."

Joel C. Rosenberg has been consistent in his identification of the major players named in Ezekiel 38/39 as follows:

Magog, Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal - Russia and former Soviet Republics
Persia - Iran
Cush - Sudan, Ethiopia, and possibly Eritrea
Put - Libya, Algeria, Tunisia
Gomer - Turkey and possibly Germany and Austria
Bethtogarmah - Turkey, Armenia, and the Turkic-speaking peoples of Asia Minor and Central Asia
Second Addendum: It is good to see that brother Joel is reading this blog and correcting some of his errors accordingly. You're welcome Joel. However, I said some of his errors, not all, so here is yet another which requires an "adjustment.

"17.) Herodotus, who never once mentions Magog, does discuss the Scythian peoples. After discussing the various theories for their origins, expresses his preferred belief that they came from Turkey..."
Again, this is not quite accurate. SoundChristian.com reports on Herodotus and the Scythians (Magog) without a single reference to Turkey and firmly places them within what we know as modern Russia and Ukraine. I would recommend reading the entire report linked above as it also discusses the Turks.

"Herodotus wrote extensively about the descendants of Magog by their Greek name, the Scythians, about 150 years after Ezekiel. He wrote of three tribes of Scythians, one being "Royal Scythians" who ruled over all other Scythians of Scythia, and two other tribes having different lifestyles: one a tribe of farmers and settled agriculturalists, and another a tribe of migrant stockbreeders who immigrated with their horses, cows and sheep. Herodotus describes them as living in the territory north of the Black Sea, and that they terrorized the southern steppes of Russia beginning in the 10th century BC. He supposed the word Scythian meant "father." Perhaps he was correct, as the name Scythian is a derivative of Ashkenaz, who was the father of the Scythians. Numerous archaeological discoveries have confirmed Herodotus' reports in general, and his Scythian accounts in particular.
He also wrote that "the wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae (Magogites), but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes (Volga) river, and entered the land of Cimmeria." Historical records indicate that in the 7th century BC tribes of Scythians swept across the Caucasus mountains displacing the Cimmerians (Gomerites). Flavius Josephus, Jewish and Roman historian, continued with that reference in the 1st century AD, when he records that Magogites (Magogians) were called "Scythians" by the Greeks. Philo, famous Greek and Jewish philosopher in the 1st century AD, also identified Magog with southern Russia"
Also in this vein I would refer the reader to FocusOnJerusalem.com where the Scythians are discussed as well.

"The Scythians We know the descendants of Magog by their Greek designation as the Scythians (depicted in their legends as descending from Scythes , the youngest of the three sons of Heracles, from sleeping with a half viper and half woman). The name Scythian designates a number of nomadic tribes from the Russian steppes, one group of which invaded the Near East in the 8th and 7th centuries B.C. After being repulsed from Media, many of the later Scyths settled in the fertile area of the Ukraine north of the Black Sea. Other related tribes occupied the area to the east of the Caspian Sea. Herodotus describes them living in Scythia (i.e., the territory north of the Black Sea). He describes Scythia as a square, 20 days journey (360 miles) on a side. It encompassed the lower reaches of the Dniester, Bug, Dnieper, and Don Rivers where they flow into the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. The Scythian language belonged to the Iranian family of the Indo-European languages. The Ossetian dialect of central Caucasus appears to be a survivor. The original area in which Iranian was spoken extended from the mid-Volga and the Don regions to the northern Urals and beyond. From here, Iranian-speaking tribes colonized Media, Parthia, Persia, Central Asia, and as far as the Chinese border. In the 7th century B.C. the Scythians swept across the area, displacing the Cimmerians from the steppes of the Ukraine east of Dnieper River, who fled from them across the Caucasus. It is provocative that even the name "Caucasus" appears to have been derived from Gog-hasan, or "Gog's Fort." The hippomolgoi ("mare-milkers") mentioned in Homer's Iliad were equestrian nomads of the northern steppes and several authorities also identified these with the Scythians. "

49 comments:

Great Grany 5 said...

Sean,
I love the statement you made to Joel when you said "but one cannot cook a "Turkey" that is not in the Psalm 83 pot." There are many people being totally deceived by the person calling his self "Joel Richardson".
He has a very proud spirit but the real thing that bothers me is his self acclaim to greater than everyone else's knowledge of God's Holy Word.

Can sum up what he really is---A Seller of Books and deception.

GG5

SeanOsborne said...

GG5,

There are many who agree with your summation. Moreover, there are some who believe that what he teaches is dangerous ground. I agree with them.

Rapture Forums said...

What baffles me about Joel is he completely ignores the historical record and places 5 different names from Ezekiel 38-39 to mean the same place - Turkey!! This is beyond comprehension. God did not need to call Turkey by 5 different names. Those names were different places, not the same place. God doesn't waste words in the Bible.

How Richardson even sees himself as a "teacher" is just plain "delusional" to me.

hartdawg said...

Joel even goes so far as to say russia is in no way involved in gog/magog, to that i say....WHAT!??!. some "teachers" (walid shoebat....i call him shoedummy) says psalm 83 is armeggedon and the nations listed are antichrists 10 nation kingdom. where do the get this malarky?

Rapture Forums said...

hartdawg,
Can you believe that Joel puts Magog to be in Turkey, rather than in Russia?!! I don't know where he's been studying, but it must have been on "fantasy" island.

hartdawg said...

It just shows how people will disregard 100s of years of sound teaching, CLEAR biblical clues (uttermost north), documented etnic studies just to prove their flawed hypotheses. walid shoedummy is in the same camp

SeanOsborne said...

All one has to do is research the specific names God gave to Ezekiel in the prophesy in order to understand who those nations would be today.

For example let's take the first three named:

Magog: "The ancient Jewish historian Josephus identified the Magog as Scythians of the far North (Antiquities I, vi. 1).


“The Latin father Jerome says that this word denotes 'Scythian nations, fierce and innumerable, who live beyond the Caucasus and the Lake Maeotis, and near the Caspian Sea, and spread out even onward to India.' Perhaps the name ‘represents the Assyrian Mat Gugi, or ‘country of Gugu,’ the Gyges of the Greeks’ (Sayce's Races, etc.).” (Matthew G. Easton)"


Meshech: “During the ascendency of the Babylonians and Persians in Western Asia, the Moschi were subdued; but it seems probable that a large number of them crossed the Caucasus range and spread over the northern steppes, mingling with the Scythians. There they became known as Muscovs, and gave that name to the Russian nation and its ancient capital by which they are still generally known throughout the East”

Tubal: "the Tibareni, a nation of Asia minor, dwelling by the Euxine sea (a/k/a Black Sea), to the west of the Moschi (present day Republic of Georgia)." This identification places Tubal along to the northeastern Black Sea coastline roughly between the modern-day cities of Novorossiysk and Sochi in Krasnodar Krai, Russia.

Anonymous said...

Joel notes on his blog today the 15th that with the writing of his newest piece of garbage that he "expanded" his Bible atlas collection to 13 books. He promises new insights and new revelations about how we are all wrong about where places are located. Even the Bible is wrong!! Only Joel the "prophet" is right.

I guess he takes his role as "prophet" so seriously that when "Joel hath said...." we all have to listen. Duh!!

SeanOsborne said...

It very sad to see that Chuck Missler and Kade Hawkins have bought into Joel Richardson's false teaching. So much for Koinonia House being a teaching ministry that I will look to in the future or ProphecyNewsWatch.com being something I will ever support again.

Great Grany 5 said...

It is the first clue of a "Proud spirit". It isn't from God, scripture tells us that "pride goeth before a fall". Paul also warned us of false teachers but the one that I fall back to everytime, "try the spirit by the HOLY SPIRIT".
Believers need the infilling of the Holy Spirit so they are fully equipted for battle we are now in.
Perry Stone has a book titled "Unleashing the Beast". The cover states "The coming reign of Terror by a Fanatical Islamic Dictator and His Ten-Nation Coalition". Perry contends that the coming world religion of the Antichrist will be Islam.
So now we are faced with a real 'yeast' infection concerning the Believers. This last day battle is just getting warmed up and Israel will have to be protected by Yahweh and the prayers of the Saints.
If any of you would like to have the book I mentioned above, let me know how to send it to you. It isn't something that I am recommending but you need to know what is going on and who is stirring the pot.
If God's word doesn't mention Islam but instead says Rome, then Rome it is.

hartdawg said...

Chuck missler? i had such respect for him. i have a hard time believing that. let God be true and every man (including those respected) a liar.

SeanOsborne said...

Adding Perry Stone to my list of teachers not worth listening to.

GG5 wrote:

"Believers need the infilling of the Holy Spirit so they are fully equipted for battle we are now in."

Amen Sister! I could not agree more with you! Being saved by the Blood of the Lamb is one thing by the grace of God, but a baptism in the Holy Spirit is something else indeed and all believer need it.

There is a literal, physical manifestation when one receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit. For myself it was a warm, all-encompassing tingling sensation from head to toe while speaking out loud in a language I do not know the second sentence of verse 6 of Revelation 21 ("I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.")

SeanOsborne said...

hartdawg,

You can believe this...

"“Once again, Joel Richardson, using the sharp sword of diligent scholarship, has continued to puncture the presuppositions and myths of prevailing traditions, illuminating crucial new insights in Bible prophecy. This book is refreshingly crisp—a must read for serious Christians and anyone who desires to understand the challenges facing us on our increasingly turbulent horizon.”

—Chuck Missler, Founder of Koinonia House, internationally recognized prophecy teacher"

hartdawg said...

It is soooo refreshing hearing another believer make the distinction between receiving the holy spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit and mentioning the gifts such as speaking in toungues...i was blessed to be raised in a church that taught prophecy and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. would it be too far fetched to say the reason alot of people are misinterpreting prophecy is partly because alot of these people deny the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Anonymous said...

Chuck Missler seems to have bought into quite a few suspect theories lately. He also seems to associate with shady characters in Bible prophecy. For example, you've got the insane prepper Ray Gano who is gathering nuts and berries for the Tribulation period. And this "Joel" guy who is just out to sell books and mislead the sheep.

Even Missler's own articles support the traditional view of Magog being Russia, etc.

Of course there is his famous "alternative article" that tries to give credibility to this bankrupt Islamic Antichrist nonsense. I've never been impressed with Missler anyway.

Great Grany 5 said...

I was saved in a Southern Baptist Church in a little rural Missouri town in 1964. It was a profound experience for me and the love for the Savior of this whole world was so very real and powerful. I studied God's word daily and truly wanted and did my best to live according to His commands for us.

It wasn't until 1990 that I was filled with the Holy Spirit and yeah, wonderful warm Honey seemed to fill every nook and cranny of my being. I was healed that July 7, 1990 evening while being a part of the Methodist Praise and Prayer meeting in my present home state. My best friend, advisor, confidant, enabler, dissector of truth and purpose has to be the enrichment that God has promised to all who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and soon coming King of this earth.

Needless to say, the world has been poisoned against even the very name of the Holy Spirit and yes, it is because of this mind set that misunderstanding and deception has spread like wild fire in these last days for the church. Another element to this 'greed' for recognition is the big moving factor, "MONEY" to keep their names in the big league.

Remembering that the Lord said there would be troubling days for all of us who believe in Him, Paul went even further when he told Timothy what the last days would be characterized by in 2 Timothy 3:1-9, especially. But I have a question that maybe you all can help me with.

Do we pray for those who have been swayed away from the truth? Exactly how do we attempt to be repairers of the Breach? Especially when they won't accept correction.

GG5

SeanOsborne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SeanOsborne said...

Anonymous,

I will address any and all relevant items in "Joel Richardson" response to my blog which require a response.

This response will likely be in the form of a main-page update to this article.

Anonymous said...

Are you accepting comments?

SeanOsborne said...

Of course, comments are open... as long as they do not support the unsupportable false teaching of "Joel Richardson" and have a valid return email address.

Anonymous No-reply@blogger comments will appear only briefly and are subject to moderation and/or deletion.

Rapture Forums said...

I agree with your additional comments Sean. Here's another scholarly link that shows that the Jews and most Christian scholars put Magog as Russia which is contrary to what the "modern day prophet" Joel Richardson teaches.

Very well written article by Dr. Grant Jeffrey. Here's the link:

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/rusisrl.htm

hartdawg said...

I think Grant Jeffrey is a good scholar. i enjoy his program. do we need anymore proof? the inspired word of God provides enermous proof. in my mind the case is closed. no muslim antichrist, magog is russia and the "prince that is to come" is European.

Great Grany 5 said...

AMEN brother!

Great Grany 5 said...

I visited David Reagan's "Lion and Lamb" website regarding the remarks he has made refuting the Muslim Antichrist and it was very interesting also. In the process, I have confirmed my understanding of the subject matter and scripture support for each segment of the discussion.
I owe you a great deal of gratitude Sean and Dr. Reagan because putting the picture together with all of the outside confusion gets a little tiring.

Also, digging out my old notes on the lessons of years past, it helped me to put my trust in 'thus saith the Lord'.
Thanks again.
GG5

SeanOsborne said...

GG5 wrote:

"I owe you a great deal of gratitude Sean and Dr. Reagan because putting the picture together with all of the outside confusion gets a little tiring."

That's why we're here Sis.

SeanOsborne said...

Great Grany 5 wrote:

"I visited David Reagan's "Lion and Lamb" website regarding the remarks he has made refuting the Muslim Antichrist and it was very interesting also. In the process, I have confirmed my understanding of the subject matter and scripture support for each segment of the discussion."

GG5,

I would be remiss then not to point you towards my Antichrist research article from exactly one year ago.

Origin of the Antichrist

As you will see in the comments section both Dr. Reagan and Nathan Jones of Lamb & Lion Ministries had very favorable comments on this research.

Great Grany 5 said...

Sean,
I am still gleaning, or better put, "Glee-ing" over your kindly linked Antichrist research. I have never really put the Grecian concept into puzzle but you have some great points.

But those feet are still causing a great deal of 'what?' for me. I did notice that some expositors describe the clay as Potters Clay and that hasn't helped my getting things settled.

I always considered myself to be a history buff but you have me beat in every area of my feeble attempts. But I am still going to chase after the understanding.
Thank you Sean

GG5

SeanOsborne said...

GG5 wrote:

"But those feet are still causing a great deal of 'what?' for me."

I look at it this way. Those feet of Nebuchadnezzar's vision interpreted by Daniel are a continuation of the legs which represented the Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire was an amalgamation of different nations hence the description of the final Beast Empire as being like miry clay and iron. There were many subservient kings within the Roman Empire who ruled their kingdoms under the authority of the various Caesars of Rome.

The ten toes of both those feet are the ten kings or ten kingdoms within the coming final version of this ancient empire. Notice there is no break in the legs, just that the empire finally manifests itself in the two feet and ten toes.

Anonymous said...

I have been "suspicious" of Joel Richardson for over 2 years. He busted onto the scene with his "prophetic" books prior to 9-11and then again and again right before certain things actually happened, causing him to rise in the limelight of the MSM.

To see him shine as a celebrity in MSM outlets is enough to question the truth of what he is saying based on the admonition of Jesus, They hated me, they will hate you, etc.

His strange "foreknowledge" makes me think he is part of what I call White Propoganda. The Black Propoganda is obvious and can be discerned by most Christians, but the White Propoganda is harder.....there is a lot of truth to sift through.

Many talk show hosts fit into this category too and are deceiving many Christians, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etc.

But regarding Joel, I do think he is working for the PTB (powers that be) to disseminate incorrect information.

Chuck and Nancy Missler fell into some strange teachings a while back and since that time there is a noticable decline in Chuck's own discernment. I have clearly lost interest in most of what he has to say, though I have been on tours with him in the past.

The bottom line is that we live in treacherous times. Everything is plastered with deception. We have to listen to the still small voice more than ever. It is almost getting to the point for me that there are only a very narrow group of "teachers" that I trust.

Many Christians and military personnel are patriotic and want to defend our country against enemies such as Islamists. But even much of that is an allusion. The conflict has been "created" by the PTB. Provocators are sent into Libya and Egypt and now Syria to foment trouble but many in our military are waking up to how the PTB are using our military to take over the world.

My personal feeling about why the arms were taken away from our military when Leon Panetta spoke to the troops was because of the treasonous statements he made before congress days before. "We answer to the UN?????"

America is destined to be destroyed when the PTB have completed their mission of using our military to accomplish the complete take over of the world. That is just my opinion based on my observations. Susan

Sean Osborne said...

Every once in a while I receive an Email comment like the one that follows.

To explain, these type of comment writers typically drop the names of some who are generally in support of the view that they themselves hold, and make bold statements casting anti-Christian or unstudied aspersions on others who do not hold those views, and they do so by anonymously refusing to stand up and identify themselves in their less-than-bold witness for the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am going to respond (in bold) to each sentence of this comment from "Anonymous."

"Chuck Missler and Perry Stone are men of God, and they know their Bible."

Yes, this is good. it is good for one to know their Bible. I know my Bible also.

"If you took time to study the scriptures there are plenty of scriptures that lead one to believe in an Islamic Antichrist."

The Bible I know tells me something very clearly about these last days. In 2 Peter 2 the Lord tells us what to expect from those who falsely teach in these last days, and the message is clear to exercise extreme caution about false teachers. So my message to you is not from me, it is from the Bible, from 2 Peter 2. May you exercise good judgment in who and what you believe. Newspaper exegesis is not something that comes from the Bible.

Answer me this. If Perry Stone is correct, and the Antichrist will be the Islamic Imam al-Mahdi, then how it is that the Jews will control more territory than they do today, they will rule over the Muslims of Jordan, Syria and Lebanon as prophecy from Isaiah, Ezekiel, Asaph and Joshua makes clear, and how is it they will build their Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem? How is all of this done with an Islamic Antichrist in control of everything?

Don't be fooled by the teaching of false teachers preaching a false prophetic word about Islam pulled from the pages of the daily newspaper! The Bible, the angel Gabriel in the Book of Daniel specifically, teaches many things about the coming Antichrist, but none of those things have anything to do with Islam.


Sean Osborne said...

Under no circumstances will I allow any further posting of a proponency for the "Islamic Antichrist" newspaper eisegesis to this blog.

Period.

This Islamic A/C/Eastern Leg rubbish had been given more than enough of space here previously.

All of that rubbish has been totally refuted as an unbiblical theory propagated by a very few confused individuals.

Moreover, the utterly lunatic notion propagated by these Islamic A/C theorists that Orthodox Judaism will accept a Muslim al-Mahdi as its Mashiach ben David is simply light-years beyond being preposterous.

Our LORD Jesus Christ made this impossibility absolutely crystal clear when He prophesied to the forefathers of modern-day Jewish orthodoxy that "I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive."

Only those who have no control of their mental faculties or have been kicked in the head by a free-range donkey would believe such a lie as contrary to what Jesus Himself has prophesied will occur.

Gary said...

Growing up fundamentalist/evangelical, I was told that as a born-again Christian God would “speak to me”, “move me”, and “lead me” so that I would know and could follow his will. I listened to others talk about how God spoke to them, moved them, and led them to do this and to do that…but He never did the same for me. I finally came to the conclusion that there must be something wrong with me because God had decided he didn’t want to talk to me. So I left the Church.

Many years later I became an orthodox Lutheran and was told that God doesn’t work like that. The evangelicals are wrong. The voice they are listening to is their own. According to “true” Christianity, God speaks to Christians in only one manner: through his Word, the Bible.

That gave me a lot of peace…until I found out that the “Word” is full of discrepancies, errors, and scribe alterations.

I was very sad (and angry) to find out—it is ALL nonsense.

So what about my problem of not hearing the "voice" that other evangelicals were hearing speak, move, and lead them? After deconverting completely from Christianity, I came to realize that it was THEM, not me, that had the problem. They were hearing voices. I was the sane one...who did not.

Sean Osborne said...

Gary,

The problem you have is that you rejected God, but even to this day He has not rejected you. You still have time to accept Him.

God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. The omniscience of God means that He has known you would reject Him even before the Creation of anything. He knows what you will yet do in the future.

Growing up in a fundamentalist/evangelical environment is usually a good start, but in your case it was meaningless. What you think you now know is what is abject nonsense.

Why? Because in your heart you never accepted the Grace of God that the sacrifice Jesus paid for with His own life. You never truly accepted the meaning of John 3:16. And because of this rejection you never received the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus to lead you, to speak to your heart, to comfort and guide you in all things.

He is still standing outside the door of your heart knocking, and it is up to you to answer His knock and prayerfully allow Him to enter. No one can do this for you.
So get on your unrepentant knees and ask Him in to cleanse you of your sin, place your life in His hands completely without any reservation. No man comes to the Father but by the Son.

Anonymous said...

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Biblical Prophecies Teaching

Sean Osborne said...

Art Simpson,

I invite you to read and derive ultimate wisdom from the Word of God:

Revelation 13:18

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six.

The word in Strong's Greek lexicon entry G444 that is translated "a man" is anthrōpos, meaning a human being.

The word anthrōpos is used to distinguish mankind (both male and female) from living beings of different orders, such as:

a) Father, Son, Holy Spirit
b) animals and plants
c) the angels.

Therefore, your post was rejected for publication on this blog because you directly contradict the Word of God, given to Jesus Christ, then given to John of Patmos by saying the Antichrist will NOT be a man (anthrōpos) but a demonic being known as Apollyon.

I also urge you to study and gain wisdom from Revelation 22:18-19 which is exceptionally unambiguous in its meaning:

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


jjirons said...

Interesting discussion. What my pastor said about this topic is that the more he studied end times the more he thought "this may not end the way we think". Consider this.
The anti-Christ may not be the Messiah figure the Jewish nation is looking for.
What if he is a world leader that signs a peace treaty with Israel that allows the Jews to build the third Temple and seek their Messiah ? Then in the 3rd year steps in
and proclaims himself the messiah.
Also, the Temple Mount is probably not the location of David's threshing floor. Its in the City of David to the South of the Temple Mount.
And lastly, my pastor said, "if you want to know when the Rapture will be look to Israel". They are ready to build that third Temple. All the need is a place.

Sean Osborne said...

jjirons,

You should read the most recent post on this blog. I do not cite any pastor, only Scripture because it is the literal, plain text word of God. May I suggest you study it and it alone.


Mediamixer said...

I don't know exactly Richardson's stand in all this, arrogant? Chosen? Don't know yet. But where can I find out what your basic beliefs are. Your stand on other subjects. I have learned do not listen to people on some doctrine. It messes with one's faith. If I take it All to GOD , that is what I learned the hard way, and over time I realize GOD is showing something different and new that others have never heard from anyone else, would people say, yeah Good showed her, right. I know some do not think GOD does this and He has changed the way He does things in different ages as far as giving clarification of Revelation. I do believe He gives no new Revelation because the end was written, but I believe He works the same as He has all along. I don't know if this is you because I just found this post, like I said, very few do I listen to. Many think that they have the truth, God gave it to them exclusively. So there are many arrogant people out there and many that I do not agree with, but I will listen. Islamic AC does seem possible if opinion counts. Now Prerry Stone I don't hear any more, I listened a couple times. Misler, yes, very much respect that man. I read his book and it was my curiosity that made me get his Alien Encounters. I did not have a clue where these creepy beings fit in with Christian beliefs. That book started my many year journey on researching fallen angel, prophecy and it kick started my interest in knowing God more and my need for truth. I do want to investigate Hislop because I had beliefs about Nimrod that affect my beliefs. today and my eschatology. I have had Two Babylons for a long time and now it seems that should be disregarded? Hislop was one of many that had a lot of things to say about Nimrod. What do you think of HISLOP, JR. Likened him to Nash in A Beautiful Mind. I don't know what to think now about Nimrod. I believe Nimrod will return, technology can make this happen, and will finish what he started a at Babel. I believe he became something different with the watchers old technology at a biological level. GOD will use giants to fulfill His wrath, we are close, because they live.. Just lots of research for me. I like different views, debate etc. In a Christian way, I mean friendly way. Thanks

Mediamixer said...

I want to add, it is called debate and that is good. I have just started his book and do not know what I will get from it, but if I thought possible and why, you would not debate it. My family are Catholic and I think the Vatican is heretic, they do not even cocker talking about to. That concerns me, because I am dead set against this Pope and his leftist ways. Debate would be good for them. No one can debate the rapture subject either, it turns Christians ugly and unchristian. No I don't try any longer, I want to act how I should so I don't discuss. By the way I am mentally ill because of my beliefs, to my family. I believe in Bible fundamentals, hurt at first, but got over it. I see where Christ said family members will turn on each other. They will learn and remember what I said and they love Christ so they will pick Him. I been telling them for 20 years. Sorry took ramble,. Regards, Nancy

Sean Osborne said...

Nancy,

I posted Eschatology Today Positional Statement on Salvation on this blog not quite one year ago.

The primary purpose for this now 9-year old (2017 is the 9th year in progress) blog is stated within graphic illustration on every page of this blog: "Current world events seen through the clarifying lens of the LORD's inerrant prophetic word. The Lord's Word proclaims a series of 'latter days' events leading to the second coming of Jesus Christ and the establishment of His Kingdom upon this earth in this current generation."

Over these 9 years I've published on Eschatology Today a total of 456 articles, News Alerts and Global SITREPs which have more than 1.3 million page views, or an average of 165,500 per month over the 8 years. So, there is plenty to read here to see what Eschatology Today is all about.

An Islamic AC is NOT possible if one relies solely upon what God says in His Word. For the most part His Word on the Antichrist was conveyed to the prophet Daniel through the angel Gabriel circa 522 BC, or directly to the Lord Jesus Christ to John on Patmos circa 95 AD (i.e. The Apocalypse of Jesus Christ).

I used to engage in debate, but then was informed in no uncertain terms by the Spirit that debate is irrelevant when it comes to the literal, plain text word of God; that as such it is not something that is debatable. Therefore a rule was applied to this blog that further debate about the so-called Islamic AC is not allowed, other than inerrant Scripture which refutes or disproves the theory.

I lived in Scotland for a couple of years in the early 1980s but have never read anything by Alexander Hislop.

Welcome to Eschatology Today!

Dinah said...

Sean,
Wow! I will give one, and only one, credit to "Joel". I have never given serious consideration to any of his "teaching". His presentation is full of arrogance and a touch of anger and a whole lot of untruth. I was drawn however to a video title where he "refutes" a teaching that I have been studying and thought I would at least listen to an opposing opinion. I listened for awhile and was soon scratching my head in wonder...what???? He made NO, ZERO, Zip, NADDA, sense whatsoever and I replayed a few sentences to reorient myself thinking I had lost track somehow. Nope, he said what I thought he said.
Which leads me to the credit due him. I googled him which led me to your site!
Bless you Sean for being the voice of reason. When God speaks, listen. His Word is infallible and has been from the beginning. He gives us every answer, in His time, exactly as it is written. Interpret the Word with the Word!

Sean Osborne said...

Dinah,

Thank you my sister-in-Christ! Your comment has elements I've heard since this was first written, but yours are here in print and are very much appreciated.

By the way, the arrogance factor is something I've experienced directly in past communications from "Joel".

Sean Osborne said...

Joey,

I do agree with you regarding "JR" but I also disagree with the gematria presented. I can't allow that to be posted here as it greatly adds to what the LORD God says in Revelation, and that is a huge no-no.

Jane said...

Sean, I appreciate your comments regarding the errors of "Joel Richardson" concerning prophecy. One of my real difficulties in studying prophecy is keeping straight all the geography...what current countries/nations are meant. Do you know of anyone who has possibly made a list of all the Bible lands and what those are now called? For example, Magog being Russia, Persia being Iran. I guess you could suggest I make my own list....ha!

I found your site and this article while searching "Joel Richardson errors".... I need to explore your writings now. Thanks for this good article and if you have any more on "Joel Richardson", leave me a link. Also...do you happen to know why "Joel" does not use his real name (do you know his real name?) Do you think he's just a coward that lacks trust in his God or what?

Sean Osborne said...

Jane,

With respect to the enemy nations named in Ezekiel's 6th century BC prophecy (Chapters 39/39), I have posted the modern-day names by which those nations are known in several items on Eschatology Today. However, instead of sending you chasing after those posts for brevity sake given the shortness of time we have left, here's my personal list for Ezekiel 38:2-6 and 39:1 with a couple of extra details added in.

Gog: the man who is the leader of Magog; he is the "son of adam" ("ben 'adam") that God instructed Ezekiel to set his face against in the declaration of the prophecy which follows.

Magog: Literally Ma-gog meaning the place of Gog. This is Russia, and by extension the whole of the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation includes the names of the Rosh, Moschi and Tibareni (Scythian tribes) Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. This principal group of nations are repeated in Ezekiel 39:1 which solidifies their primacy among this group of enemies. Gog is their supreme leader. All of them are Japhethites going back to Genesis 10.

In addition to this primary group, there are allies of a second echelon, or rank of this military confederation:

Persia (Paras = Iran), Sudan (Kuwsh - Horn of Africa) and Libya (Puwt - North Africans). These enemies are more lightly armored in that they have shield and helmet, which are primarily defensive in nature. So in no way is Ezekiel declaring that Iran, Sudan and Libya are a major component of the invasion force, they more correctly appear to be guardians of the Magog. Meshech and Tubal main force eastern and western flanks.

In addition the the primary group and secondary echelon of the military confederation, there is to be a third echelon made up of the Japhetite descendants of Gomer, from whom Togarmah is descended. They have dwelt for thousands of years in the northeastern quadrant of the Black Sea. from Crimea to to Don Basin to the western Caucasus.

I know "Joel's" real name, it was revealed to me a few years ago. It is my belief that he fears harm will come to himself and/or his family, so he adopted this pseudonym. It's just my take, but apparently this fear is more powerful than Father, Son and Holy Spirit or the angelic host to provide his desired level of personal security.

Jane said...

Sean,

Thanks so much for giving me that information on the names of the nations. I appreciate your work in doing so. I'm really enjoying studying prophecy now and am trying to 'get it' with full understanding, which is not easy...and probably why it's so easy to forget if not learned well. But I'm also getting the impression that the end may not be far away now. I am so ready for this cruel, evil world to just be over.

Take care and God bless your good work!

Vicki Roblin said...

Chuck Missler is advertising an expensive conference for this year and has included Joel Richardson in his itinerary. I never heard of this guy before so I started researching and... I found this site. I am very glad that I did. I read all the post on this blog and then clicked the links provided to one of the responders. I also read one post that indicated that Perry Stone is also not a man worth listening to. I had already decided that Mr. Stone is not someone I want to learn from. I search youtube daily to discover good pastor who preach or teach sound doctrine. I avoid anyone who goes on Sid Roth's program Supernatural because that stuff is so much nonsense. Again, I am so glad I found this blog.

Sean Osborne said...

A double response to Jane and Vicki.

Jane,

This is one of the primary purposes for which Eschatology Today exists - getting good info as led by the Holy Spirit regarding Bible prophecy to those who are earnestly seeking it. And I agree with you 100%, the bride's remaining time on this earth is becoming more finite by the day if not the hour.

Vicki,

If someone had told me a decade or so ago that Chuck Missler would fully buy into into the Islamic Antichrist eisegesis of "Joel Richardson" and the others, I would not have believed them. I had thought he was far more intelligent and discerning when it came to Scripture.

As far as I am concerned, the entire eisegesis is nothing more than a revenue-generating exercise in false teaching; it fully compromises the God-breathed teaching in Scripture from Daniel 2 onward.

While the focus here is purely on prophecy, may I suggest you look at Dr. David Reagan's Lamb & Lion Ministries for a fuller Spirit-led teaching ministry.

God Bless you both! Marana'tha!

Sean Osborne said...

MelPax,

Myself and this blog are NOT like the Corinthians to whom Paul wrote with all due irony in 2 Corinthians 11.

Eschatology Today has never and will never put up with fools gladly. For you think yourselves so wise, yet you stand on one leg. The four winds of heaven shall surely blow your beloved esegesis into the dust bin where it belongs.