Friday, August 28, 2015

Daniel's 70th Week and the Harpazo

UPDATE 01 September 2015: It's always a very disturbing thing to see such rampant deviation from the doctrine to be found within the Word of God coming from people who self-identify as believing Christians. It is everywhere one casts his or her gaze these days. It is beyond me to understand why such people will go to other men or women for religious doctrine instead of to Living Word of God, and the Holy Spirit which the Lord sent to be among us, to instruct, convict and assist us. But, you know what, all of this apostasy is yet another 'sign of the times', a sign of the great apostasy that is as much a part of last days eschatology as the battle of Gog/Magog or the 70th Week itself. These things are all synonymous indications and warning of precisely what time we live in.  

28 August 2015:  It's time once again for an update regarding the Harpazo of the bride of Christ due to the fact that there is now an in-progress effort by some false teachers who are going to try to convince as many of you as is possible of a couple of things. One thing is that everything you know about the 'end times' is wrong, and the other is that Harpazo will not occur prior to the 70th Week, but during it. 

I will not name these false teachers because it may well be that their names might not be written in the Book of Life, so why should I name them in this space? (Matthew 7:21) They also wish to make a large sum of cash money TO COME DIRECTLY FROM YOU for their effort to instruct their unbiblical nonsense, so you will learn of their names soon enough. These are not Christian brethren that constantly argue against us in our belief as led by the Holy Spirit. They are clearly identified as last days 'Laodiceans' in Revelation 3:15-19.

These false teachers will attempt to instruct that the bride of Christ will be subject to the wrath of God during the 70th Week; that the cataclysmic effects upon the whole earth as the Lord Jesus Christ opens the seven seals will also befall the bride of Christ as much as it will those who would believe the lie of Satan and his beast and false prophet.

I will use the word of God, as given to the apostle Paul in his letter to the Ephesians (link embedded in the text for context), to preemptively destroy everything these false teachers have to say to us and to the as yet unsaved masses.  The Harpazo of the bride of Christ will occur prior to the 70th Week, and Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit to tell us why this IS the fact of the matter:

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish."
Let me repeat: We, the bride of the LORD Jesus Christ, God incarnate, are beloved by Him, He gave Himself for us, and He washes us and cleanses us by the power of His word, so that He will soon present us to Himself as a glorious bride, without so much as a single spot or wrinkle, completely holy and without blemish! 

Does this sound even remotely like the bride of Christ will be subject to the wrath of God loosed upon the world during the 70th Week? Is any of the bride of Christ to be subject to death, disfigurement, disease, dismemberment, tortured, raped, pillaged, bloodied and bruised? Of course not! So as you come to see the assault from the false teaching of disreputable men, stop them in their tracks and refute them with His word that washes us and makes us glorious for Him to present us to Himself.

29 September 2013: It has been suggested by a couple of those Christians who do not believe there can be any pre-70th Week wars because God would not allow them prior to the Harpazo/Rapture because that would be tantamount to judgment befalling the Bride of Christ. It is those Christians then that the key question of this addendum is addressed: How do you reconcile the current and ongoing wholesale extermination of Christians in the Middle East by Islamic Jihadists? The rampant martyrdom of our brethren across the whole of the Middle East and and Southwest Asia, excepting only the State of Israel, has reached epic if not Biblical proportions. Therefore and within your own eschatological view, how do you deal with this most uncomfortable truth?

UPDATED and REVISED 23 September 2013: Following some fairly intensive study I feel there's a need to update this post with some additional information which is directly relevant to where I left off with the 19 July update. As stated in the second-to-last paragraph, I believe there is a direct prologue correlation of the coming Harpazo of the Bride of Christ with the Harpazo of Enoch prior to the Flood.

However, that is not the most appropriate prologue to cite according to what I believe God has informed us of in Genesis 6 and 7.  Noah, his sons, their wives and the building of the ark itself as an avenue of escape from the judgment of the Flood is an exceptionally poignant and prophetic prologue.  The enigmatic verses of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-6, which many pre-70th Week dispensationalists do an eschatological tap dance around, is resolved fully and to the literal letter of Paul's inspired declaration on the subject.

Make no mistake, I am definitively of the pre-70th Week dispensational view, however it is entirely due to what God says in His Living Word of Genesis 5, 6 and 7 that I no longer can accept that there will be any gap of time between the Harpazo and Day 1 of the 70th Week.

This is really so simple I feel I should head-slap myself as NCIS' Jethro Gibbs would head-slap Tony DiNozzo for some unprofessional silliness simply because I did not see this sooner. 

Genesis 5:32 and 6:10 tell us Noah was 500 years old and to him were born after his 500th year three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Genesis 6:3 and 6:13 and 6:17 provide the details that the Lord's judgment was announced in advance and would come upon the earth in exactly 100 years time from Noah's 500th year on the earth. Noah and sons were found to be pure in the generations from Adam; that is to say their DNA was pure and uncorrupted by any fallen angelic corruption, and so they were excepted from the wrath to come, to be saved from the coming judgment of destruction upon the earth. 

Then Noah receives his precise instructions from the Lord on how he is to construct the ark and he does exactly as commanded. Clearly to be assumed from the text here is that Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, were all born and raised to a working age during the 20 years following Noah's receiving this instruction from God. Therefore, since Shem, Ham and Japheth are not known to us to have been triplets, at the minimum their ages would have been 20, 19 and 18, respectively, when the laborious task of constructing the ark was begun in earnest.

Then at Genesis 7:1, 6 and 11 come the very interesting details. Here the Lord informs us that the construction of ark was completed. Noah and his family are told to enter into the ark and the Flood commences on that same day. 

This day is specified in Genesis 7:6 to have occurred when Noah was 600-years old -- and Genesis 7:11 gets very specific that this occurred on the 17th day of the 2nd month of that 600th year. No reason is given for this specificity, but my sense in literally interpreting this is that it somehow relates directly to the future Harpazo (end of the Age of Grace - start of the 70th Week) occurring within the exact same template of a certain specified or appointed day and hour known only by God the Father. 

This, obviously, brings us to the point wherein I am sure some of my fellow dispensationalists will object to what has been written here thus far. They will say, "Ah, but you have violated the the inviolable, you have violated the "Doctrine of Imminence. This cannot happen." Really?  What is the "Doctrine of Imminence?" Is the "Doctrine of Imminence" given to us in the plain text of His Word, is it demonstratively inspired of the Holy Spirit, or is it something that has been interpretively inferred by fallible men based upon what the Lord has said, both in text and in-person? Obviously, this doctrine has been interpretively inferred in relatively recently times by men, and therefore it suffers from a weakness that must be defended.

What is provided here is based upon the God-breathed narrative about the Flood of Noah, and this includes the prophetic template or foreshadowing that the very elect of God were saved from certain destruction via Divine judgment of a kind that had never before occurred on the earth. Also included here is the direct albeit figurative reference from the angel Gabriel to the prophet Daniel that the end of the present age will come "the end thereof shall be with a flood" (Daniel 9:26c) and the very specific reference given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ in the Olivet Discourse found in Matthew 24:36-39 (emphasis added):
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."
Need any more be stated?

13 July 2011: This time we're back into the "meat and 'taters" of eschatological study. I say "meat and 'taters" because this is some truly heavy fare that will require significant Berean study, commentary, and probably some editing in the process. I am not really teaching anything with this post, but rather I'm as much learning in this process as are those who are reading this for the first time.

To begin with, a verse from Daniel that we should all be quite familiar with. It is this verse which I believe is indicative of both the revealing of the Antichrist and the commencement of Daniel's 70th Week and the imminent Harpazo of the Bride of Christ which meany teach is a signless event.

"Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering." (Daniel 9:27a NKJV)

How does this verse relate to Paul's exhorations to the Thessalonians who were very concerned that Daniel's 70th Week had commenced.

"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4)

If 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 is definitively referring to the Harpazo of the Bride of Christ, then clearly that event is not signless event with spiritual apostasy and the revealing of the Antichrist being definitive temporal signs that the Harpazo must occur after the restrainer is moved out of the way. As Paul strenuously exhorts - let no one deceive us in any way about this.

So, if I understand this correctly, and I think I've done my homework here, what Paul is teaching to the Thessalonians, and to all Christians up to the present time, is that the apostasy (falling away) precedes the revealing of the Antichrist and the revealing of the Antichrist precedes the Harpazo.

Here is where I, as a pretribulationist believer, found that I must assume in reading these verses that Paul had taught the Thessalonians about a pretribulation Harpazo. Indeed the assumption is correct because Paul so states in the very next verse (2 Thessalonians 2:5) that he had previously taught the Thessalonians exactly that.

However, in spite of the teaching they had received the Thessalonians thought they were living in the tribulation, during Daniel's 70th Week. They were extremely concerned that they had missed the Harpazo which in turn made Paul's correction to them in these verses absolutely necessary; he had to prove to them in no uncertain terms that the Harpazo had not occurred and thus gave them specific signs with with to prove his teaching and alleviate their fears.

UPDATE 19 July 2011: I believe the restrainer is the Bride of Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit.

In my study I realized that knowledge of who the restrainer is has been the fact of the matter since the Day of Pentecost (read: Paul in Romans 5:5). The restrainers role will end on the Day of Harpazo. This finite period of time is also referred to as the Dispensation of Grace, and is referred to by Paul in Romans 11:25 as "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in."

As for Daniel's 70th Week, we all know those literal 7 years have two 42-month long halves. It is the second half which is a Great Tribulation like nothing ever experienced on the earth in the past or ever again in the future. The near annihilation of all life on the earth if those future days are not cut short by the direct intervention of God.

Those months are foretold in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 26:19-21 (Isaiah refers to this period as "the indignation" and also prophecy's the Harpazo will "hide" us in certain chambers until this period of time is past. Those chambers (literally "dwellings") were revealed to us by the Lord Himself in John 14:1-3. Zephaniah also speaks to our being "hid" in "the day of the LORD's anger (i.e. the day of the LORD's wrath). The same is said in Psalm 27:5.

As a template for the Harpazo of the Bride of Christ, I think the Harpazo of Enoch prior to Noah's Flood serves us very well. Genesis 5 tells us that Enoch lived 365 years and was Harpazoed straight to God. It is interesting to note here that by counting the years between Enoch's harpazo and day one of Noah's Flood we can see that he was caught up 531 years prior to the flood. Now while that's a serious amount of years prior to the end of that dispensation, it's all relative because people prior to the flood were on the average living for just under a millennium of years (circa 9 centuries give or take a decade or two). Now Psalm 90:10 tells us we live (on average) for 70 years or 80 years with strength.

The point is the Bride of Christ will be Harpazoed as was Enoch, prior to the wrath of God being poured out. And since Daniel's 70th Week is not relative to the Bride of Christ, but to Israel, we're gone prior to the commencement of those 7 years, and which our Lord said would be inclusive of the lifespan of the generation alive at that time. Given that the prophetic re-birth of Israel (Ezekiel 37) occurred 65 years ago, I would tend to think we're on the tail end of the timelime that's left prior to Daniel's 70th Week commencing.


Ian said...

Thanks for your post.

I've been an avid watcher and student of the harpazo, having gone everywhere from pretrib to post-trib to midtrib and then ultimatley by God's grace back to the biblical teaching of pretrib/pre-70th week.

This verse was one of those that I struggled with, but in reality if you just read the next few verses, Paul states very clearly that a certain "he" is withholding the AC. Some people teach this is the Holy Spirit, but the scripture calls the church the body of Christ:

Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. Eph. 4:15 (NLT)

IMHO I think scripture shows it is His body that must be taken out of the way before the AC and apostasy can occur.

God bless you in your studies, and God willing I will see you soon!



Expected Imminently said...

Hello Sean

I have just replied to rg on L&L and intended to fall into bed there and then!

However, dear old Rodney is over there crowing that you have now gone over to his way of thinking and ditched imminency, so I had to deny me old bones and come for a look-see.

Just a quickie. The context of 2Thess2 is NOT about the Harpazo, it is about the ‘the day of the Lord’ and the fact that it was NOT PRESENT as the Thess had been led to believe.

Imminency is un-affected.

The ‘broad’ day of the Lord (seven years) is imminent and sign-less, it is the ‘narrow’ day of the Lord, a literal 24hours at the END of the Seven that has LOADS of signs (the 2nd Coming).

So tired. God bless.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Sean

This is a cut and paste I did earlier that you may find helpful from Twin City Fellowship – Eric Douma. He goes into the Greek tense, but it isn’t ‘heavy’. His view is the same as Reynald Showers, which is slightly different to Arnold Fruchtenbaum - but when all things are deliberated, there is no REAL difference between them. Just to be awkward I agree with both of them, it’s the ‘nuances’ that need to be mulled over.

There is a choice for audio, video and Powerpoint for free download.

April 3rd 2011 – The Day of the Lord: A look at the imminent Day of Salvation and Judgment.

There is also 2 Thess2:1-9 Gathering Together in the Light of the Coming Day of the Lord. That’s in audio and Powerpoint.

By the way, my last comment read as though I had got into bed with rg – ahem, don’t fear for him, E.I’s too far away to do him any harm. Now EI goes bye-byes.

SeanOsborne said...

God the Father is sovereign. He can send Christ for His bride at any moment. That is what is meant by imminent and I still believe it to be absolutely true.

By the way, I find it pretty much ridiculous that Rodney had to go hijack Nathan's current article discussion like he did. So pathetic.

Now I think it's necessary for me to go and search out everything I can regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:3 and the Seals of Revelation to see if some editing is in order. I've always believe that Jesus' breaking of the first seal is the revealing of the Antichrist. If the Harpazo occurs prior to that, then I have misunderstood what Paul is teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.

Back to work.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Sean

I like your style! :)

Thanks for putting Rodders right, I was beginning to think I was seeing things.

This a.m. I posted my understanding of 2Thess2 to refute Jacob's claim in his book over on L&L so I won't bog you down with it here.

I DO agree that Jesus breaking the first seal IS Daniel9:27 the FIRST reveal of a/c to those Trib saints who hear from the two witness and the 144,000 who are made 'wise' to events.

The 2nd reveal is to the Jews in the MIDST of the week with the AoD - this is an important 'time marker' for several events such as the Trumpet judgments - the 7th Trumpet BEGINS the final 42 months of a/c rule and ends with the 7th Bowl (2nd C) when a voice from the heavenly Temple says 'it is DONE'. THE Trib is over and followed by 75 days 'mop up' operations.

I am 'going on', so will leave you in peace to work. May God bless it!


SeanOsborne said...

Ok, this is an open work in-progress.

The first seal definitely introduces Antichrist, he's on a white horse (immitating Christ), he has a bow (symbolic of military power) and is given a crown (symbolic of kingship), "and he came out conquering and to conquer."

"Conquering and to conquer?"

Daniel tells us that Antichrist arrives as a peacemaker, he comes into power peacefully but with intrigue. He subdues three kings, but not through warfare. He acquires their crowns through intrigue, like an usurper. That would be very consistent with how precursor Antichrist Antiochus IV Epiphanes took control of the Seleucid Empire.

So, I'm assuming that this "conquering and to conquer" is the Antichrist's peaceful acquisition of his empire despite the violent connotations associated with "conquering and to conquer."

Then comes the opening of the second seal and war.

First seal starts Daniel's 70th Week.

The second seal would appear to be opened at mid-week and the world enters the Great Tribulation, the wrath of God, from that point forward.

There appears to be a small gap of time, say a couple of years, between the first horseman of the apocalypse and the following three horsemen.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Sean
Why I do not agree that the 2nd Seal is opened Mid-Week.

The two witnesses are given 1260 days to minister.
We know they are killed by the revived beast after he comes out of the Abyss at the 5th -6th Trumpet judgement called the two ‘Woes’.
For them to be killed (and resurrected) at the end of their 1260 day ministry, places them, and the 5th and 6th Trumpet at the MIDDLE of the Week.
It is also when the False Prophet sets up the AoD and the mark 666 is given.
Also when the now believing Jews in Jerusalem flee to Bozrah.
Jerusalem is split by a massive earthquake. ALL these are in the MIDST of the Week.

The 7th Seal judgment contains the 7 Trumpet judgments and the 7th Trumpet contains the 7 Bowl Judgments which are poured out over the FINAL 3 ½ yrs.
Therefore, the Seal judgments are over halfway through the FIRST 1260 days ( 3 ½ yrs).
6 Trumpets are also completed by the MIDST of the Week.

At the MIDST of the Week; the a/c is given a further 42 months to reign (FINAL 3 ½ yrs) and is destroyed at the 7th Bowl judgment when Christ returns to end the day of Jacob’s trouble.

The MIDST of the week is an important TIME MARKER. From here we can count backward 1260 days from their death and resurrection, to place the two witnesses at the very start of the Seven when the first seal is opened and the day of the Lord begins.
Count forward 42 months, which is another 1260 days of a time, times and half a time, – or 3 ½ yrs to the end of the seven which is 2,520 days, or 7 years of 1260 prophetic years.

I will try to find time to add the Scriptures, but I am rather pushed for time.

God bless you.

SeanOsborne said...

2 Thessalonians 2:1

"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,"

The Greek word for "gathering together" (in one place) is episynagōgē, and specifically refers to a gathered assembly of Christians. We are gathered together unto Him.

This is without question the Harpazo. It is a one-time event.

Is this not what Paul is referring to as taking place after "the falling away comes first" and the "man of sin" is revealed?

hartdawg said...

Here is my understanding of the passage: "... concerning the coming of the lord jesus(second coming) and ( meaning of different event) are being gathered together to him ( rapture)" he simply reminding thenm what he had written in his first epistle. Kind of like saying " about these things I written to you" he goes on " I do not want you to become easily unsettled ( these people were terrified) buy some spirit or letter supposedly coming from ( he was correcting a forged letter) as if the day of the lord (the tribulation) had come" if these people had a post trib understanding they would not be greatly shakin because that would mean jesus is coming soon and would contradict a versus that say we eagerly await his return. he goes on " that day ( day of the lord or tribulation) will not come until the man of lawlessness is revealed ..
." He is revealed when he confirms the covenant.

hartdawg said...

So the first seal represents the anti christ he confirms a covanant and goes forth the conquer nations peacefully the peace is short lived as the 2nd seal bring s war...

SeanOsborne said...

To the "Anonymous" who attempted to post the link to a 97-page date-setting treatise from "Conditional Salvation" here:

I have removed that link. No one knows when the Harpazo will occur but the Father.


SeanOsborne said...

I have yet to locate a passage where Paul definitively identifies "the restrainer."

That led to my questioning as to why Paul's inspired words are ambiguous about the identity of the restrainer in this second epistle to the Thessalonians.

The ambiguousness leads to much speculation and interpretive reasoning.

I also find this most curious when we are told point blank by Paul to not allow ourselves to be deceived in any manner about this.

Therefore, I believe and can be confortable with the ambiguousness because of the fact that the restrainer is the Bride of Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit, and the masculine "he" should be captialized in the text because it refers to the He (Holy Spirit) within the Bride as a whole.

The Harpazo, at the direction of God the Father, thoroughly removes God's restraint upon Satan's activities in this world.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Sean

I have prayed for you and wondered how your study was going?

Concerning the ambiguity of the ‘Restrainer’ in 2Thess2. It may be ambiguous to us, but I am certain the Thessalonians understood exactly who Paul meant. Somewhere in the Grammar and history, there is clear evidence who HE is; I hope our teacher The Holy Spirit will clearly reveal it to us very soon.

I find it easier to say who it isn’t – or can’t be such as Michael the Archangel who is protector of Israel. What good is there in that if he ups and leaves when Israel needs him the most? In any case, Daniel says Michael ‘stands up’ (to fight?) not that he is ‘removed’.

Because a/c is the ‘man of lawlessness’; it stands to reason he is presently being restrained from doing his worse right now. When a/c is revealed he confirms THE Covenant, not any old covenant but *THE* – definite article. Then 3 ½ years later he breaks *THE* Covenant with the Israeli majority suggesting a referendum? Those Jews who will understand from the 2 Witnesses that Jesus is their Messiah and accept Him, will be the minority and decline the a/c ‘deal’?

Is this the Abrahamic Covenant of a Land, Seed and Blessing? Specifically the promise of a Land so they can rebuild the Temple in preparation for the promise of A SEED, their Messiah (not Jesus) can return and give them the promised BLESSINGS from the Abrahamic Covenant a.k.a. the Messianic Kingdom? If so, then the ‘Restrainer’ could only be God Himself – The Holy Spirit as the Abrahamic Covenant is only God’s responsibility to keep as it is UN-conditional. When HE is removed from the act of restraining out and out Semitism to destroy God’s people, only then can the lawlessness against God’s law begin?

Thoughts not facts – just thinking out loud.

God bless.

SeanOsborne said...

E.I./Sue wrote:

"I have prayed for you and wondered how your study was going?"

Hi Sue. Your prayer was most certainly a blessing indeed. See the update to this blog entry I just posted and tell me what you think.


Expected Imminently said...

Sean said “I believe the restrainer is the Bride of Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit”.

Oh ow; that hurt! For the first time I have just tried to read 2Thess2:7 in the Greek to see why *HE* is used to describe the Restrainer; but all I could discover was a personal pronoun doing the act of 'holding down' and I don’t reckon that can be right!

Katecheo is the word for ‘restrainer’ and literally means ‘down hold I’ or ‘I hold down’. If it’s HE or She I understood the ending should be katechei at the very least. My ‘Thayer’s’ says it is the Roman Empire doing the holding down??? So now it’s my turn to be stuck, and I don’t know what to say… :(

Regarding the restraint, I do think it is to benefit the Church, and yes the removal of The Church is linked with the removal of the Restrainer and imminency remains unaffected as we cannot know exactly when.

Sean said “…The near annihilation of all life on the earth if those future days are not cut short by the direct intervention of God.”

Certainly the two clearly timed halves of the Seven are not to be cut short as it was ‘cut short’ – trimmed to the Seven in the PAST; so it COULD have been longer than Seven, but God is merciful.

Thumbs up to everything else.

God bless

SeanOsborne said...

SIDE BAR: I believe the reason no one but the Father knows the day or the hour of the Harpazo is because the Father, in His sovereignty, has determined to keep this part of His Will secret from Satan who would surely attempt to do something to interfere if he were to learn of that day and hour in advance.

Satan was not able to interfere with the arrival of the Holy Spirit into the Church on the Day of Pentecost and he will be unable to interfere with the Harpazo when the Church ascends with the Holy Spirit to Heaven.

This is when Satan does learn quite unambiguously that his remaining time is very short indeed, i.e. about seven 360-day earthly years.

Anonymous said...


Good article, and with your follow-up post to day, you took the only kinks out that I had problems with. The 70th Week of Daniel, as you said is all about bringing the Jews to repentance, though 2/3rds of them don't make it through the 70th week, and only a remnant of the Jews actually accept Yeshua as Mashiach by the end of the Tribulation. The Church (Bride of Hammashiach), I believe is gone, as you do, Raptured out, the Restrainer, removed, allows the Anti-Christ to manifest his power so that he can make the peace agreement with Y'israel that begins the 70th Week.

I am sorry, but I believe that Sue, who commented earlier, is wrong, in her estimate that 2 Thes. 2 has nothing to do with the Rapture. You,I and a lot of our learned friends also support that 2 Thes. 2. is talking about the rapture.

One last thing, it isn't by accident that Yeshua referred to the Church as His Bride. In Traditional Jews marital rituals of Yeshau's days on earth, the groom first approached the father of the bride and made His intentions known regarding his daughter, he would pay a dowry for her hand in marriage, then leave her with her father, while he went to his Father's house and prepared a room to receive her. The celebration plans were made and put prepared, and at an undisclosed time, known only to the groom or the Father of the Groom, the groom would return, unannounced, to the home of the Father of the bride, where she was, and take her back to His Father's home and place her in the room He had prepared for her. The Wedding party preparation were completed and then after a period of time, the groom and bride would emerge from the wedding chamber to be received by the wedding guest at the party, for the first time as man and wife. The fact that the New Testament has several references to the Church being the "Bride of Yeshua Hammashiach" is no accident, and analogy is meant to further support the Harpazo of the Church. No loving Groom would allow His bride to knowingly suffer punishment that had already been paid in full for.

Anyway, Great article Sean!

Blessings and Shalom,

Maranatha! Mark

Gramma from Canada said...

Paul was reassuring the Thessalonians because they had been told or heard somehow that they were now in the Tribulation.

They were so shaken that paul made a 'point' of saying in 1 Thess that they weren't going to be here for the Tribulation AT ALL...

So, 2 Thess 2 is about Paul comforting them and reassuring them not to worry about the 'false teaching' they had been told or read because that is exactly what it was 'false teaching'...which is 'exactly' what we are to do, about 'all' false teaching regarding the Rapture of the Church. (and all other false teaching).

God Bless,
Gramma from Canada

Anonymous said...

Hi Sean and others commenting: I have a question that has been bugging me.

I believe that Jesus came first to the Jews and that he never actually taught about the rapture. I think this (the rapture) was something later revealed to Paul.

I don't believe Jesus was talking about the harpazo in Matthew 24, but rather the people who would be "taken" at the end of the tribulation, i.e., any surviving unbelievers would not go on to live during the millineum. But I often hear Christians quoting this scripture to refer to the harpazo.

Who's view is correct re: Matthew 24 and those "taken and left"

Thanks, Susan

SeanOsborne said...


I was working on this specific issue today, and I think your question is truly Spirit inspired in my opinion.

I am of the opinion that a revealing explanation of the Gospel truth lies in what the Spirit-inspired early church founders wrote. One of those writers was Irenaeus.

Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp and Polycarp was a direct disciple of John the Revelator.

The tradition of passing down verbally the Word of Christ was inherent in these early church fathers who lived within the first 100-some odd years of the original apostles of Christ. They did indeed keep alive the tradidition of the Jewish "oral law" and used the existing Scriptures as their basis of exegesis.

Irenaeus is one who emphasizes that only through Christ is prophecy revealed.

Aside from the Gospels the things written by Polycarp and repeated by Irenaeus is hte closest we can come to "The Word" as passed on verbally from Apostle to student.

Irenaeus made it unambiguously clear (no possible errant interpretation IMHO) in his "Against Heresies" Book number 5,

"And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this."

I believe this statement and its understanding handed down to Irenaeus via Polycarp, via his direct dialog with John the Revelator very accurately reflects a pre-Daniel's 70 Week Harpazo as taught by Christ and by Paul after him..

hartdawg said...

its my understanding the rapture is not taught in the old testament but is implied in the Isaiah passage and elsewhere in the old testament. its also not taught in the Synoptic Gospels but is definitely alluded to. it was first clearly taught in john 14:1-3 and expounded on in 1 thessalonians 4:13-18. that's my understanding anyway

hartdawg said...

also, speaking of the man of sin I had always believed Daniel chapter 8 was a prophecy concerning antiochus AND anti-christ but I had recently been told it was only about antiochus. I showed him the verse that said "IT CONCERNS THE TIME OF THE END" and "IN THE TIME OF WRATH" but he said I was reading too much into the passage and it only concerns antiochus. so where am I mistaken?

Great Grany 5 said...

you aren't wrong! Just as Enoch is an example of being translated up to heaven bypassing death a fore picture of the rapture, so is Antiochus IV Epiphanes the foreshadow of the Antichrist. Just as Antiochus desecrated the Temple of God with the pig sacrifice and demanding worship of Zeus, even his name gives a clue in the discussion. That name means "God Manifest".
The Antichrist will likewise desecrate the 3rd Temple with an Idol that he will demand the Jews to worship.
Dan 8:9-14; 23-25; 11:21-35 very aptly present the picture.

Remember that God's word tells us that there is nothing New under the sun and what was, will be again.


hartdawg said...

thank you great granny. every time I read Daniel 8 I always thought it was both antiochus and Antichrist. that's what the Scripture appears to imply. the person I was talking to was an ammillenial preterist who believes isreal is the church. also a reformed covanant theologian

Great Grany 5 said...

Just in case you want to read that passage: KJV says "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."


Great Grany 5 said...

He is a little more than mixed up but I am a firm believer that he was put in your pathway for a Godly reason. Pray for his awakening by the Holy Spirit and don't let his diatribe cause an offence to get into your heart. It will take place because we know that the time is getting shorter and shorter but in that, Jesus is getting closer and closer.

hartdawg said...

his eschatology is all messed up but the rest of his theology is spot on and I have learned a lot from him. what baffels me is how can a person b so knowledgeable in the Scripture, have right on theology on just about every issue, live a very godly life and yet get eschatology, the church an israel all wrong. he takes all the other passages very literally except prophecy. that's what I don't understand. and by the way I have learned when conversation reaches a certain level the other person just will not be convinced at that point it is time to end the conversation.

SeanOsborne said...

In other words the preterist is utterly lost when it comes unfulfilled Bible prophecy.

The Holy Spirit does not tell one man one thing about a given prophecy and another man another thing. The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS speaking the exact same truth.

This is why I believe that while one does receive the Spirit upon accepting Christ this IS NOT the same thing as being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

They are in fact two different experiences.

hartdawg said...

"in other words the preterist is utterly lost..." I could not have said it better myself. and the bible is very clear about the distinction between receiving the holy spirit at salvation and the baptism of the holy spirit. the book of acts clarify that I just forgot which chapter at this point. they are in fact 2 different events you are absolutely correct!

Anonymous said...

Great reply to my question.

However, to be very specific, do you believe the "taken and left" in Matthew 24 refers to the body of Christ or believers alive at the END of the tribulation, or both.

Thanks for starting this post BTW, Susan

hartdawg said...

Susan ....I in no way speak for Sean but the context is the 2nd coming and the word "left" can also mean sent away. the next verse clarifies it. "where? where the carcasses are there the eagles (vultures) will be gathered.

Anonymous said...

Sean and hartdawg,

I think hartdawg gets what I was asking and you (Sean) misunderstood my question.

It is my belief that Jesus is talking to Jews mainly in Matt 24 and that the passage is about the 2nd coming not the rapture of the church.

Therefore, I believe that the ones "taken" Jesus refers to here are the bad guys left on earth at his 2nd coming. "Taken" is not a good term here as I think all unbelievers are removed from earth at the beginning of the Millenium.

The ones "left" are the believers and of course they remain with Jesus. As more and more people are born during the millineum unbelievers will again arise as evidenced by the vast number of people who chose to follow Satan after his release.

In summary, all I am saying is that the "taken and left" passage
is often quoted to refer to the harpazo. While I agree the rapture will be like this......two grinding at the mill, etc. I don't think Jesus was describing the rapture, but rather the people at his 2nd coming and what will happen to them.

Hope that clarifies, Susan

SeanOsborne said...

I have no doubt that Jesus is referring to living people in Matthew 24:40-41. Verse 40 refers to two men working the field one is, paralambanō, taken (by Christ) to be acceptable to enter the millinnial Kingdom, and one is aphiēmi, sent away (by Christ) or not allowed to enter into the Kingdom. Verse 41 refers to women in the same way.

This is after Daniel's 70th Week, so I do not believe it is accurately describing the Harpazo, because half go into the Kingdom and the other half are sent away.

This is clearly a 50/50 division of acceptance and non-acceptance and it do does not occur in the Harpazo. In the harpazo Jesus comes to collect His Bride and the rest endure the wrath of Daniel's 70th Week. Clearly 50% of those living would not be taken in the imminent Harpazo.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Sean,

Whew, I think we are finally on the same page. I'm not as familiar with the original languages for the terms taken and sent away as you are, but I have always thought these passages referred to the 2nd coming not the rapture, because of the context.

Many Christians think I am nuts because I believe Matt 24: 40-41 is related to the people who will enter (or not) the millineum.

Thanks again, Susan

Anonymous said...

Things are easily misunderstood in email format. No worries. Just wanted to get your understanding about who these end times people are in Matt 24.

Thanks, Susan

hartdawg said...

hey Sean....
I hope this. is not too off...ill just ask it:
is it true that netanyahu agreed to pre-67 borders? do you know the real story behind that, ??I have a feeling we're not being told everything

Great Grany 5 said...

Found this about the Israel offer on the pre 1967 lines.
I know that DebkaFile had an article the other day about it but I couldn't find it at this time.


hartdawg said...

Sean, I want to say you're wrong, I want to say that you need to study more or rethink you're position.......problem is I can't. I'm not sure the 70th week will occur on the exact same day as the harpadzo but I don't think they will be more than a few weeks apart. I'm of the belief that the harpadzo, Gog/magog and the 70th week will begin nearly simultaneously. Once we see psalm 83 and the following recovery, then and only then will the rapture will be very imminent. That's just my thinking.

Lujack Skylark said...

Is it possible the Harpazo happens right before God's fury against Gog takes place(Ezekiel 38:18)and we are in heaven when great hailstones, fire and brimstone strikes Gog? (Ezekiel 38:22)Right after we go up in the clouds right before (Ezekiel 38:18) Ezekiel 38:22-23 soon takes place? In the hailstones, fire and brimstone the anti-Christ arises and offers Israel peace by a 7 year economic, military and political alliance?
Are the Ezekiel 39:9 7 years the same 7 years of the tribulation? These are my questions. Thanks Sean!

Sean Osborne said...

Hartdawg and Lujack,

I just completed an update and revision of what was posted yesterday afternoon. Additional clarifications, Scripture references and fully formed thoughts in complete sentences have been added.
Since you two are the first to read and respond... now tell me what you think?

In Genesis 5, 6 and 7 is there not more information than first meets the eye?

For example:

In Genesis 5 we are informed by God that Enoch was Harpazoed into the Lord's presence in the 987th year after Adam's Creation.

At no point in my life was I ever taught this by any bible teacher.

The Lord taught me this Himself. He literally took me to His Word and had me read it for myself. Proverbial light bulbs of understanding and comprehension began illuminating one after another.

Here's another.

Adam was Created by God, and Lamech was the 9th generation of mankind to be born (Abel was the first and he was slain by his brother Cain who was thereafter exiled and forgotten). Lamech lived exactly 777 years.

Noah was the 10th generation of mankind born, and right from his naming by Lamech he is identified as a very special man in Genesis 5:29 ... his name, Noah, means "rest" because his role will be to comfort all mankind from the destruction that would come in the Flood. Noah and his sons were genetically pure from the Adamic original image of God which He Created.

There's more, but I'm out of time for the moment... back later.

Lujack Skylark said...

The Harpazo happens on the very same day the anti-Christ comes on the world's scene is quite interesting.

All those prophetic pre-wars before the Harpazo gives indication we can quote those wars fulfillments to a non-believing world before Harpazo and lead people to the Bible showing its prophetic accuracy and lead people to Christ by proving all God's word is accurate for those who will listen.

hartdawg said...

Sean, concerning Genesis 5,6 and 7 I'll tell you what I think, I believe that there are many hidden mysteries and patterns that are coming to light exactly as is predicted in Daniel 12:2....if only more people would take the time to search them out

hartdawg said...

Lujack, I personally think the scenario you described above about the 7 years burning fuel running concurrent with the 70th week is accurate. Reading Ezekiel 39 we see God revealing himself supernaturally to Israel which he does during the 70th week.
In revelation 12 we see the remnant of Israel fleeing into the wilderness but keep in mind these things
1) only a remnant will flee and many (perhaps 2/3s) will stay so there'll be people there to burn weapons

2) the wilderness where Israel flees to will be Israeli territory by the time of Gog/Magog as a result of psalm 83 so perhaps the weapons will already be there.
Tho there may be a 3 1/2 year gap between Ezekiel 38 and the start of the 70th week there are enough possible senerios to indicate otherwise as well. That said, I still agree with Sean's assessment that there is no gap (except I think there MIGHT be one of a few weeks at most.....maybe)

Sean Osborne said...

Lujack wrote:

"The Harpazo happens on the very same day the anti-Christ comes on the world's scene is quite interesting."

BINGO Lujack, that is the eye-popping realization I came to recently.

It is the prophetic template that came jumping out at me from the Scripture of Genesis 7.

It was a stunning moment is the quiet of my private study time of His Word; it was a lightning bolt out of nowhere... and then when it hit me, well that was the point at which i gave myself the proverbial 'Leroy Jethro Gibbs' head-slap; my "Doh!" and "Kodak moment" all rolled up into one. How could I not have seen this sooner?!?!?!

...because God wanted it that way. period.

That's the thought God once again has awakened me with at 0'Three Hundred Dark Thirty this morning, LOL!!!

This is a specific day on which one dispensation concludes and the subsequent dispensation commences. There's a few of them to look at an examine.

Take the first one, Adam's innocence to his fall into sin - that occurred within a single 24-hour day.

Genesis 7 gives us a one-day transition. It occurred on the 17th day of the second month of Noah's 600th year on the Earth.

How about the Age of Grace? It had a specific beginning date and it will have a specific completion date. The Age of Grace was also empowered in the Holy Spirit on a specific prophetic date: the day of Pentecost.

It was couched in the specific and literal fulfillment of many prophecies concerning our Messiah Jesus Christ. It's all about the literalism of the Lord's prophetic Word.



Exact fulfillment.

Single 24-hour day wherein a transition from one dispensation to the next dispensation occurs.

And I'm of the belief that it will happen again to end the Age of Grace and begin the 70th Week.

Another transition will occur in the middle of the 70th Week when the Tribulation of the first 42 months becomes the Great Tribulation of the second 42 months on the day in which the image of the Antichrist is stood up in the Holy Place within the 3rd temple in Jerusalem.

Yet another single-day transition will occur on the day Jesus Christ returns to the earth as King of kings and Lord of lords ending the 70th Week and beginning the Millennial Kingdom.

So, what I'm saying here is that through the Word of God, in Scripture, we have all of these examples to look at.

Sean Osborne said...


I'm of the interpretation that the battle of Gog/Magog is pre-70th Week.

Nowhere in Ezekiel 38/39 is there any mention of Jerusalem or the Temple Mount or any Temple. No abomination of desolation. No Antichrist, so it's definitively pre-70th Week in my view.

Then there's the aftermath.

Ezekiel 39:9-10 leads this aftermath off by saying the people from Israel's cities will come out of those cities to burn the invaders weapons for 7 years. These Israeli's are not in flight from the Antichrist as they will be upon the Abomination of Desolation at the middle of the 70th Week and for the subsequent 42 months thereafter. The people of the cities of Israel burn the weapons in Israel for the full 7 years. So, this almost must be prior to the 70th Week and the revealing of Antichrist with the covenant among many.

Then beginning with Ezekiel 39:13 we read: "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying..."

All the people of the land of Israel... will be doing this, and after seven months they will execute a search of the entire country for any fragment of bone that remains - clearly this is after the war and before the 70th Week has begun.

And you know what... still no mention of Jerusalem, the temple mount or construction of the Temple that will be standing on Temple Mount, no daily sacrifice... nothing.

These details were including in the middle of Ezekiel 39 for a reason... but then at the end of Ezekiel 39 we find verse 29 which is a very powerful, past-tense indicator of a transition from the Age of Grace to the 70th Week.

And just prior to verse 29 we see in verse 25 that God brings back all Jews still living elsewhere in the world back to Israel, He brings back "the whole house of Israel" to Israel and He does this to "have mercy on the whole house of Israel."

This is the prophetic fulfillment of what Paul wrote in Romans 11.

So, the end of this final pre-70th Week conflict is very close in time to the start of the 70th Week.

And what is one of the major aspects of the first half of the 70th Week? The 144,000 Jewish believers who go out from Israel and preach the Gospel of Christ to the whole world.

hartdawg said...

I have yet another question about the so called gap and the pre-70th week wars. Many "scholars" say that if these wars occur before the harpadzo then the day of the Lord will not come like a thief. Here's my question/dilemma, I can't find in scripture where his coming like a thief applies to christians. What am I missing?

Sean Osborne said...


You're not missing anything.

What these "scholars" say is incorrect. The "coming like a thief" doesn't apply to Christians - it applies to all others outside of the Bride of Christ.

FACT: The Bride of Christ was instructed by Christ from the get-go to "Watch!" that we are to know the season.

And here we are, about 1,980 years later, and we do know that we are in the season of the Lord's coming for His Bride.

How do we know this?

Because of what happened in May 1948 when Israel was re-born in a single day in precise literal fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 66:8. The parable of the fig tree is now a fulfilled prophetic parable.

I suppose these "so-called "scholars" will say next that the modern State of Israel is a figment of our imagination; that Israel is not a factual example of fulfilled prophecy in the modern era.

Hogwash. Balderdash. Nonsense.

I have news for such "scholars"... they are absolutely incorrect about this and certainly need to go back to whatever school gave them their diploma... either that or request a refund for their tuition fees.

hartdawg said...

One thing that irks me is when very well intentioned pre trib scholars say "I'm not looking for signs I'm looking for Jesus". I'm of the belief that looking for signs (I.e. psalm 83, Isaiah 17....) is looking for Jesus. Since Jesus gave us signs to watch for, and since signs point to Jesus s return, doesn't it stand to reason that to look for signs IS to look for Jesus? You can totally believe that psalm 83 occurs before the rapture and still be looking for Jesus. Just my opinion

hartdawg said...

BTW this has been hard for me to accept. I really want the harpazo to occur like today. I always believed that there would be a gap but the more I study it without a biased lense the more I'm forced to conclude otherwise. I find myself in a position where I'm forced to change my belief to match scripture. Scripture indicates no gap so I must believe it despite what I personally wish it to say

Sean Osborne said...

I thought only moments ago that what follows was intended specifically for a Brother in Christ, John the SonSeeker. Now I am sure it is for any and all who will read it.

"1) I cannot claim that any of those words in the teaching are mine even though I typed it out and posted it online for the entire world with access to the internet to read. This teaching was a process in which He (Ruach HaKodesh) literally took me by the hand and over exactly 80 days spoon fed it to me from Scripture. All I did was type it out in the sections you see on my blog and the teaching became clearer as the days progressed.

I was literally learning exquisite details as each day progressed to the next. It was a process of instruction that lasted exactly 80 days. I believe the 80 days was meant to be a symbolic hammer in order to impress the point of Psalm 90:10, that this last generation is most assuredly a generation of strength. The Lord does not tarry as some claim, He knows what is occurring and will occur down to the nanosecond.

2) On Friday, 12 July this teaching process began, and very early the next morning I began typing the first part. Seven days later, Friday 19 July, I was to type out the second part. Just as Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One so also are all of the Bride of Christ One in Him. "That where I am there you may be also," is decidedly singular in context, but Jesus very clearly meant every individual member of His Spiritual body, millions of whom were yet to be born in the future, but whom He knew and whose names were written into the Book of Life from the beginning. Now that's Omniscience! And this was the basis for what was posted on 19 July.

3) Then, between 19 July and 22 September a total of 65 days passed. The very next day the updated and revised teaching of 23 September occurred. Why do 65 days (evenings and mornings) come and go between these two parts???? This has been made explicitly clear to me - this year is the 65th year since Israel's rebirth in a single day fulfilling Isaiah's prophecy. Once again, a confirming symbolic meaning of what was being taught, and the explicitness of the same day as the Flood was hammed home at that time.

4) And then there were another six days until the final addendum of 29 September and I knew this was the final part because it came to be when I least expected it. It came out of the blue, like a thunderbolt, "Ask them this!" It wasn't a question, it was a command to instruct those (Dr. Thomas Ice, etc., etc. modern-day arrogant priests that they hold themselves up to be) who do not accept any of the pre-70th Week prophetic teaching about increasing number and severity of the "birth pangs" occurring prior to the Harpazo.

And therein was the sum of a full 80 days in the process of teaching this.

hartdawg said...

Speaking of Thomas ice, doesn't it say in Daniel 11 than Moab edom and ammon will escape, and furthermore, if the remnant of Israel flees to Petra, which is in ancient edom, then wouldn't that contradict Thomas ice's supposition that psalm 83 is fulfilled at Armageddon? Or am I wrong?

Sean Osborne said...


Daniel 11 says nothing about Petra, but nevertheless you are correct and Ice is wrong.

Now, about Petra. I don't know where some eschatologists come up with the idea that during the 70th Week the Jews will be hidden from the Antichrist in Petra.

I do not believe there is any Scripture which clearly states such a thing as this or which could be interpreted as is claimed by some eschatologists.

On the contrary, what the prophet Jeremiah foretold is the fact of the matter as a result of the treachery of Edom (of which Petra was an integral part as was Seir and Bozrah) during the Babylonian conquest of Judah.

Jeremiah 49:7-22 is very much a prophecy for fulfillment in these last days, and I would suggest to all Bible prophecy expositors that they look to what is stated therein as it is a prophecy against Dedan (Saudi Arabia).

This prophecy of God foretells that the Dedanites should flee; that like the ancient neighbors of Sodom and Gomorrah, Dedan's cities would be like those of Edom's cities (i.e. Seir, Petra and Bozrah):

"No one shall remain there,
Nor shall a son of man dwell in it.

How is it that during the 70th Week Israel is supposed to escape to Petra a place that God has declared that no son of man shall live?

Sean Osborne said...

Speaking of Petra, the assumption by many that Petra would be the place where God would hide the Jews who flee from Jerusalem is based upon some very ancient and false assumptions regarding this area.

In this age of satellite photo reconnaissance it should be clear to all expositors of Bible prophecy that the modern Petra bears no resemblance of the ancient and inaccessible Petra.

The modern Petra has more modern 5-star resort and tourist hotels than most other places in the Middle East have ever dreamed of.

The place that God has prepared is unknown to one and all until that day mostly because the Lord does not want Satan and his Antichrist to know about it.

This place would be all to easy to locate and nuke or drop fuel air explosives (FAE) on killing outright or asphyxiating every living thing within miles of the place.

This subject of Petra should be thought and prayed about at length before parroting what so many other in Bible prophecy have assumed and "best guessed" about for so very many years.

Michael Oguekhian said...

The the. Times are fast approaching. The wingss for flight are taking shape, as the winged creature in the Ark of covenant.

Michael Oguekhian said...

Then suddenly it happens! Only people who keep the treasure of God will brand it's relevance! Abraham, Noah, Elijah, David, Moses. Let the time come quickly

jmoll106 said...

Hi Sean, I appreciate the search feature on your blog.
I was re-enforcing my beliefs to be sure my understanding of the Word of God is correct. I see in Revelation 4 and 5 that the elders ( which I believe represent the Apostles and church) have gold crowns ( stephanos) which means they were given their treasures in heaven before the Lamb opens the first seal releasing a/c into the world. I've heard the teaching that the phrase "you have redeemed us" could mean "them" but I don't see that in my understanding of the greek. I was unable to find any info on Rev 4/5 so I figure it wouldn't hurt to ask. Thanks

Sean Osborne said...


I have mentioned this before, but I hold the view that the Harpazo occurs in Revelation 4.

My reference to this:

"What occurs in the very first sentence of Revelation 4 is the very real and also symbolic Harpazo of John of Patmos into Heaven. The symbolism here is that John's Harpazo in Heaven occurs prior to the opening of the 7 Seals of the Wrath of God by the Lamb of God. This is a preview, a precursor example of the Harpazo (snatching away) of the Bride of Christ prior to the first act of Thlipsis in the 70th Week. The Bride of Christ will not endure the wrath of God.

Moving on to Revelation 5. This chapter opens with God sitting on His Throne in Heaven holding a scroll containing what? Judgments written on the inside and the outside separated by seven seals. There is no one found in Heaven or on the earth who is found worthy to take this scroll from God, much less to even look at it! Here is where John in his Harpazoed state does some really incredible Heavenly time travel. Time is irrelevant in Heaven, but you'll get my point as this progresses. John was Harpazoed into Heaven circa 95 AD. We all know this. Jesus was slain, resurrected and ascended into Heaven how many years prior to 95 AD? 62 to be precise. 95 AD - 33 AD = 62 years. So when was John Harpazoed into Heaven in the year 95 AD how is it that he was able to be an eyewitness to a time prior to when Jesus won the victory over sin and death for all mankind? And, more importantly, in the very next instant John is an eyewitnesses to Jesus' appearing before God as the victorious Lamb of God, and He is found to be the only One worthy to take the scroll in order to begin opening it, Seal by Seal, so that God's judgments may be fulfilled upon the Earth. Wait now -- it gets even better.

can be found HERE

Search "Revelation 4" for more references.

jmoll106 said...

Thanks, I hope this blog stays up during the final 7 years. Even though you won't be updating them. :)

jmoll106 said...

Since the two witnesses are so powerful could they be the ones who protect Israel and allow them to live in peace and safety, in an expanded Israel, build the temple and protect them from the antichrist and from a covenant he makes against Israel but with the many in the first half of the thlipsis, the nations are in a rage and powerless against God's chosen until the antichrist is empowered by satan and God allows the two witnesses to die.? Sorry the question is so long, just trying to say it clearly. Emphasis on trying. :)

jmoll106 said...

Also, after reading Rev 4 again, I see the sea of glass as the church before God in perfect peace. In heaven prior to the 1st seal opening. I thoroughly enjoy your posts.
Peace in Christ...

Sean Osborne said...


A few details to be very aware of:

1.) The "peace and safety" that Israel will have occurs prior to the 70th Week, prior to even the Gog/Magog Confederation attempt to invade and conquer.

2.) The Two Witness ministry is active only for the first 42 months of the 70th Week. Their deaths, resurrections and ascension into Heaven as well as the Abomination of Desolation all occur in-between the first and second 42 month periods of the the 70th Week (Thlipsis and Megas Thlipsis).

3.) The 70th Week Temple is clearly already built and functioning with worshipers when the Two Witnesses are appointed by God to commence their ministry. This is a really important detail from Revelation 11:1-3 that almost no one has noted (that I am aware of)!!! These three verses strongly indicate that the Temple in Jerusalem on the Mount will be standing and in full operation prior to the 70th Week beginning. This is another of the reasons I believe over the next three years, culminating with Israel's 70th anniversary, will contain events of monumental prophetic importance.

jmoll106 said...

Sean, thanks on #3 - I connected Rev11: 1-3 together because verse 3 starts with "and". So I was thinking at the same time.

jmoll106 said...

One other issue....
Dan 9:27 says."
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.."
Am I correct thinking the "many" are "many nations".

Sean Osborne said...


A structure of the size, with the intricacies and to the religious specifications required of the Temple cannot be built quickly. It will take some to to complete following the Psalm 83 war. I also note that Ezekiel 38/39 does not make a single reference to it, but does indicate Israel having been enlarged at some previous point to include territory presently in Jordan, that is east of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea.

I agree, the "many" in Daniel 9:27 are numerous nations. An international treaty is what the "covenant among many" amounts to in my view.

jmoll106 said...

Just finished reading Ephesians this morning and was praying for the church that the eyes of our understanding would be opened especially in these dark and confusing times. I also like the verse that says..
Eph 5:6

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE. (Not His Bride).

Thanks and keep teaching 'til were called home.

hartdawg said...

Sean, one thing that you do, whether you realize it or not, that helps people understand the truth of the pre 70th week harpazo, is that you refer to it as the 70th week. I wish more teachers would do so. I call it the 70th week or time of Jacob's trouble. Those are the biblical titles for that time period. When someone asks me if I believe in a pre trib rapture, I tell them no, I believe in a pre time of Jacob's trouble catching away because tribulation is a discription, not necessarily a title.

hartdawg said...

Something else, those who teach a "post trib", post 70th week but they won't call it that, are thieves on 2 levels
1) they steal the believers crown because they no longer look for and love his appearing. And
2 ) they get into the satanic heresy of replacement theology and steal promises from israel
Post 70th week teachers also, in my opinion, believe in a false God. The God of the bible would never pour out his wrath on the body of Christ

Anonymous said...

Jesus said not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of the father. Feels like these false teachers are teaching a mid-trib, post-trib to cover their behinds when people wonder why they are still on the earth after Christ takes his holy bride to be with him. Remember not all who call him Lord will be truly saved, but only those who do the will of God. Anyone who is truly saved will be able, by the Holy Spirit, to discern what the Word of God really says all others will be deceived because the Word can only be truly understood by a true Christian.

Sean Osborne said...

Yes, and your quote reminded me that I should include the citation of Matthew 7:21, which I have now done. Also the Revelation 3 reference to last days Laodiceans must be included. After the Harpazo they will be fully exposed for what they are. Pray they become saints of the 70th Week.

Anonymous said...

Sean, thank you for your blog, it is a blessing on so many levels. With sadness, I wanted to question the potential for the Laodicean church to become tribulation saints. I am quoting 2 Thessalonians: 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

One has to wonder if it will be possible for the Laodicean church to become Tribulation saints, since most of them ought to have been exposed to the Gospel at some point. If they are left behind, they will have obviously chosen not to receive the love of the truth in this present dispensation so that they might be saved; therefore, this may be a big part of the group to whom God will send the strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.

Remember the rich man and Lazarus, how the rich man begged that a message be sent to his brothers so that they would repent and not wind up where he was, and he was told (I'm paraphrasng here) that they have Moses and the Prophets, if they will not listen to them, then neither will they believe if someone returns from the dead. There is a principle here that I think ties this all together. If anything, it underscores the urgency for us to pray for and try to reach out to our brethren in the apostate church (which I strongly suspect comprises the majority of our current mainline churches) as the day of our redemption draws nearer; there may not be a "second chance" for those that heard the true Gospel in this dispensation and turned away or tarried.

Rhonda said...

Dear Sean and readers,
My husband and I just went to the movie "War Room" last night. It is made by
the people who did Courageous, Fly Wheel, Facing the Giants and Fireproof. It
is sooo excellent and very timely. The war room is a prayer room. Every Christian
should see this movie.

Anonymous said...

Hello, this is the anonymous long time reader who wrote the comment above about the Laodicean church and the strong delusion (my first post, I guess I'm a little shy). To follow up, there is something about this whole scenario that seems similar to when God hardened Paraoh's heart. I have always struggled to really understand aspects of that, but it seems to me that it echoes the strong delusion in the 70th week in some way. A lot of things in the tribulation do mirror the Exodus. By the way, not that it matters, I am a Jewish believer. This may give me a bit if a different perspective on some things. I hope it blesses the rest of the body.

Sean Osborne said...


Where you wrote, "I’ve been following this blog and this is the first time I’m responding to one of your posts. I’ve read the update to this entry and it does prompt a question I've had for some time, concerning the idea of the spotless bride and the wholesale rescue of the body of Christ. I’ve tended not to be dogmatic, considering many bible teachers..." is where you lose me.

Your first problem is that you deny the Word of God as being inspired into Paul was of the Holy Spirit, and therefore that it was and remains to this day absolutely and utterly infallible. This tell me that you do not have a direct relationship with God through the Holy Spirit, for if you did you could never say such a thing as "the idea of the spotless bride (of Christ."

Your second problem is related to the above, in that you listen to men in order to find doctrine that you can abide with, the "bible teachers" as you call them, instead of relying exactly as the word of God instructs on the Scripture His Spirit has inspired for doctrine. Forget what these men say, what does God say! That is the only infallible thing upon which doctrine is based.

Because of these thing you fail to understand the difference between the trials and tribulations of living in a fallen world and the advent of the 70th Week as prophesied by the angel Gabriel to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27), as well as what Jesus meant when He spoke of the "thlipsis" and the "megas thlipsis" during His Olivet Discourse. The 70th Week IS both the thlipsis and the megas thlipsis; it is the final 7-year period of human history prior to the advent of the millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ.

I suggest you read the Bible for yourself and ask God in Jesus name to bless you with a baptism in the Holy Spirit. Then you will understand all of these things and never have to rely on what another man says about any of it, you will hear it directly from Him.

Great Grany 5 said...


God's Word forwarded us that deceitful men would lead many astray with a doctrine that does not come from Him. He even said that 'even the elect' would be deceived into believing a lie. We have all heard that very important passage read to us at some time but this past week I was sickened to hear a minister, one that I have admired and trusted so long, fall for the false doctrine of the Mahdi. He is very well known and one that has been very, very bold in his declarations of salvation through Jesus Christ alone.

I have considered writing to him and sharing the bible based reasons I so strongly disagree with his new leanings but after hearing him in another message just this past Sunday, I truly believe he would not be swayed by my testimony in any way. When I say that this ministry is a key figure in the CUFI, I am saying Very Key! But the thing that really bothers me is that pride and conceit can blind any of us as to the real truth of God's word when ever we try to snuggle prophecy to match the newspaper exegesis of our times.

The only genuine and pure Authority is the Holy Spirit of our great ABBA FATHER and it is available to each and everyone of us. So, I greatly agree with you, (no surprise is it) when you say Study God's Word and quit taking someone else's word for what it means. There is no excuse for not studying because the internet is a treasure trove of great and true study materials and not a theory of another man. God is not man that HE should lie but that every word He has published for our edification is pure, true, anointed and HOLY. Only by the Holy Spirit can any of us come to understand the Truth and God has promised that all who call on Him, He will answer and provide.



Sean Osborne said...


Amen sister!

Sean Osborne said...


This is my blog. My blog has commenting rules. the primary rule is (with due emphasis): "Comments are again open to anyone. However, all submitted comments will be vetted through an active moderation process. Any comment deemed inappropriate will be permanently deleted during the comment moderation process.

The pre-70th Week Harpazo is Biblical doctrine as far as myself and the content of this blog are concerned. Doctrine is not and never will be subject to debate here. Never, Ever. Nor I will never allow any comment which includes the positional argument of ANY man which teaches a position which is contrary to Biblical doctrine.

This is why your comment was not posted.

Those Christian believers who you also refer to in your comment are identified unambiguously in the The Revelation of Jesus Christ as those who come to faith and salvation in the blood of Jesus Christ during the 70th Week. These are post-Harpazo Christians.

Because you are of the mind to accept the teaching of men who do not accept the Scriptural basis of the pre-70th Week Harpazo you have not made the critical identifying discernment between the Harpazo-ready bride of Christ currently living on this earth and the post-Harpazo 70th Week (thlipsis-megas thlipsis) saints (also referred to by some as the Tribulation-Great Tribulation Saints).

Revelation 7:14 clearly identifies these saints as having come out of the Megas Thlipsism a/k/a the Great Tribulation, which is expressly the final 3.5 years of the 70th Week. They were people who were 'left behind' on the earth after the Harpazo, and were concurrent with the Two Witness whose ministry is also unambiguously to occur during the first 3.5 years of the 70th Week.

You may have noticed, or perhaps you have not, I do not use the phrase "Tribulation Saints" as it is inaccurate terminology. 70th Week saints is a far more accurate descriptor to identify the 7-year period in which they will live on this earth.

Sean Osborne said...


Christians the world over have been persecuted during the entire preceding and current pre-70th Week era, which as of the present date includes the past 1,982 years.

You ask what are they to think? You don't know? Is God's Word not clear enough on this specific issue?

The answer lies in what Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Once again, God's Word contains the unambiguous answer that you were obviously not able to reconcile with current events.

This is what all believing Christians are to think (i.e. understand and comprehend by the Holy Spirit as infallible Scripture).

Are Christians any different in the Middle East (Iraq, Syria, etc) than Christians here in the United States who have been persecuted and killed because of their faith in our Messiah Jesus? Absolutely not.

For the edification of all:

There is the recent case of 49-year old Freddy Akoa of Portland, Maine. In the supposed safety of his own home, and according to a coroners report, Freddy suffered several hours worth of beatings and blows to his body that included horrendous bruising and 22 rib fractures. Freddy was ultimately murdered in cold-blood via repeated blows to his head resulting in acute brain swelling trauma. His murderers were at least three Islamist Somali immigrants. Freddy's crime? Inviting immigrant Somali Muslim's into his home to preach Jesus the Risen Messiah to them. Freddy was found on his living room floor with his blood-splattered Bible underneath his body.

hartdawg said...

Hi sean! Just a quick comment, I can never, for the life of me, understand why those who believe in a post 70th week harpazo always visit pre 70th week sites and forums. If they're so ademately opposed to that position, which is the biblical position, why visit those sites? I don't understand it. The same thing happened on a Facebook group site. These pre wrath heretics showed up and tried to correct us. Why visit those sites? Have a great day in the Lord

jmoll106 said...

Over the years and after reading your Sitreps and reading the comment section, I have always felt that your readers would always go back to the Word of God and even if the Apostle Paul came and commented contrary to the Word of God it would be rejected outright. There are alot of Bereans here.
So a big AMEN to that.

jmoll106 said...

Over the years and after reading your Sitreps and reading the comment section, I have always felt that your readers would always go back to the Word of God and even if the Apostle Paul came and commented contrary to the Word of God it would be rejected outright. There are alot of Bereans here.
So a big AMEN to that.

Sean Osborne said...


They come to our sites for one reason and one reason only - to contest the issue in debate. In this they wish to apply circular reasoning instead of accepting what is clearly stated in Scripture. They refuse to accept that when God has stated something there are no "ifs, ands or buts" about it, it's Divine truth. Period.

I also suspect that they know very well they are not going to be found worthy to escape the wrath poured out during the 70th Week, so desire to drag others into it with them. That ain't gonna happen here, I can promise you that. They also refuse to recognize that any and every question there is or will ever be has an answer ready for it within God's Word.

As I have made clear above, the pre-70th Week Harpazo of the bride of Christ is biblical doctrine, and as such it is never subject to debate. Well, at least not on this blog. The Bible also tells us to defend the faith by taking a stand against false teachers. One of the ways I accomplish this mission is by steadfastly refusing to give them a voice on this blog. Anything which challenges what God clearly says in His Word is heresy, and I will never abide with or tolerate heresy. These heretics are engaging in what God said to us all through the prophet Jeremiah 14:14.

"And the Lord said to me: 'The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.'"

I know this will be a big issue in the days to come because there is one prominent "Pre-Trib" individual who has agreed to a public debate on August 5 of next year with a known and arrogant advocate of personal eisegesis regarding an islamic antichrist and a post-70th Week Harpazo.

Miriam said...

Hello, this is the long time lurker who posted about the strong delusion above. I guess I'm going to come out of hiding :-) My husband and I were watching an old Chuck Missler video where he does a broad overview of the bible last night and something related to this thread jumped out at me. When God sent the 2 angels in to get Lot's family out in preparation for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, they made it clear that God could not start His judgment until Lot and his family were removed. Remember that Abraham bargained Him down from 50 righteous people to 10 righteous people, but in actuality, God could not pour out his wrath while even one righteous person remained. Our God is a God who repeats patterns and reveals aspects of his nature to us through that repetition. He has told us explicitly that He does not change, and that even if we are unfaithful, as most of my brethren after the flesh have been most of the time, He remains faithful to His covenants and character, for He cannot deny Himself. This it would be impossible for the 70th week of Daniel and the pouring out of the wrath of God and the Lamb to begin while a single saved believer is in a position to receive that outpouring of wrath. Jesus said to His Father that He had not lost one of the flock that was entrusted to Him, and He will not lose any of us. We need to remind ourselves that every hair on our heads is numbered.

In the video, Chuck mentioned a quote from Billy Graham years ago, who said that if God does not judge America, He will owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology. Chuck's thought from the 10 year old video was that the delay had to do with the Abrahamic covenant and our support of Israel. As a lover of my country and the daughter and wife of veterans, it is both sad and sobering how that Billy Graham quote resonates now.

Sean Osborne said...


Please lurk no more dear Sister, your first comment here and the response to GG5 in the other SITREP are among the very best in the nearly 7 years of Eschatology Today's existence.

Yes, absolutely, patterns and repetitions and types and precursors throughout the Old Testament are exactly how the Lord instructs on prophetic events! Removing Lot and family out prior to judgment coming down is a perfect precursor example of a prophetic Harpazo-type event prior to judgment occurring, just as Noah's Ark was, and John on Patmos own Harpazo into Heaven prior to the Lord's opening of the 7 Seals of wrath/judgment was a precursor of the Harpazo event.

Even the manner in which the Revelation is composed is a precursor of the Harpazo. The simple observable fact is that the events described in Revelation 4 and 5 (John's Harpazo and the appearance of the 7 Scrolls of Wrath) precede the events described in Revelation 6 and 7 (Commencement of Judgment).

Your post has been used by the Lord to instruct your truly, (the timing of this is Divine perfection), and now I simply must compile a list of all of the patterns and repetitions and types and precursors of a Harpazo prior to Judgment and post it to the Blog!

Alf Cengia said...

Hi Sue (EI),

I remember you from Lamb & Lion blog a few years ago.

The link you provided of Eric Douma's excellent lessons on petrib is no longer valid.

The new address is here: