Wednesday, February 1, 2012

Clues to the Timing of Ezekiel 38/39 and other Insights



1 February 2012: I was immersed in serious Ezekiel 38/39 study into the wee hours this morning when new insights began to emerge that I'd not noticed previously.

Firstly, Ezekiel is the only prophet recorded in the Holy Bible to which God directly revealed the details about "Gog, of the land of Magog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy concerning him."

None of the other prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel or Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi wrote so much as a single prophetic word about Gog of Magog. Zippo, Nada, None. The fact that the angel Gabriel said nothing to Daniel about Gog of Magog speaks volumes in my opinion. I would say the purpose of God the Father is inherent in this blatant omission. More on that in just a moment.

Secondly, when the angel Gabriel told Daniel (Ch. 11) about the kings of the south and north, that particular prophecy was fulfilled in the several wars between the Hellenic empires of Ptolemaic Egypt (south of Israel) and the Seleucid Empire of southwest Asia (north of Israel). These wars were fought over a period of 106 years (274-167 BC) and which culminated in the fulfilled prophecies about the precursor antichrist Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

There is no mention of the Antichrist or of Jerusalem or any existing Temple in Ezekiel 38/39. I believe these are indicators that the attempted invasion by Gog's confederation occurs during a period of time when Israel is dwelling securely (after Psalm 83, Isaiah 17 for example) but has not yet rebuilt the Temple. Like a time between right now and the start of Daniel's 70th Week and the revealing of the Antichrist with his 7-year "covenant among many."

Finally, getting back to the Lord's purpose in His prophetic word to Ezekiel. This is a really crucial point for us to consider. This coming great slaughter upon the mountains of Israel in Ezekiel 38/39 is not just to bring Israel back into faithfulness to God, but also, as the Lord declares in verse 16: (NKJV - emphasis added) "And thou hast come up against My people Israel, As a cloud to cover the land, In the latter end of the days it is, And I have brought thee in against My land, IN ORDER THAT THE NATIONS MAY KNOW ME, IN MY BEING SANCTIFIED IN THEE BEFORE THEIR EYES, O Gog."

Do you see that? God declares to Ezekiel - and to all of us living right now - that He will supernaturally reveal Himself to the gentile nations of the world through the overwhelming slaughter of Gog's entire confederated military forces and the fire He sends on the land of Magog.

First question: What purpose would there be to this for all of the gentile nations if it were not prior to the Harpazo?

And what does Ezekiel say occurs after the burial of Gog's confederate armies?

Israel builds the Temple.

27 comments:

Great Grany 5 said...

Sean,
Good work and don't you suppose that the loss Russia will suffer, in both manpower and world domination, will help to give Israel the sense of security in Yahweh? I mean, after all, who has really had the ability to snuff out Mother Russia in all of these decades except Jehovah God?
One thing that struck me in your comments was the word "Israel" as related to the Northern Portion of that nation.
Would that mean the Nation of whole Israel or would it be the Kingdom of Israel that became known as the Northern Kingdom? I think I will do some further investigating of my own. Not meaning to complicate things at all but seems very odd to me that the Northern Kingdom is never mentioned but Judah is. Israel will be one complete nation before we enter into the final act of this great drama but just when does this happen.
I just cannot accept that it will all go unnoticed and unmentioned by our Heavenly Father.

Now for some chewing again. I haven't been able to do much reading lately due to eye problems but Jesus said he came to bring sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, cause the lame to walk (leap about)and deliverance to the oppressed.

Shalom

SeanOsborne said...

Hiya GG5,

May God Bless, Keep and Heal you.

Yes, I believe the Lord's purpose is two-fold in bringing this confederation of nationals to their supernatural and overwhelming demise:

1.) Bring Israel back to faith in YHWH

2.) Reveal Himself manifestly to the gentile nations.

In this article the "Israel" I refer to is the Israel that Ezekiel defines in chapters 36 and 37; the Israel that fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 66:8 by being "born in a day... a nation brought forth in a moment" on 15 May 1948.

Anonymous said...

I agree with your analysis all in all. It could go several ways. Your talk about the Lord showing his Glory to the Gentile nations made me think about Isaiah 17:7. Basically paraphrasing after Damascus ceases from being a city, men starting looking toward their Maker. Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17, and perhaps Ezekiel 29 the judgment on Egypt might all precede the attack from Russia, Iran, Libya, and Turkey etc. After the surrounding nations are destroyed. Maybe they then take that "Evil Thought" and the Lord puts the "Hooks In their Jaws". Just an opinion, because these nations that surround Israel are not mentioned by name in the Magog Invasion, and certainly they would attack with that Northern Confederacy. Just found your site God Bless, Jimmy

Anonymous said...

Umm.. I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but uh.. theres an error.. "Gog" is mentioned in Amos 5 in the Septuagint.. I have a copy of it here on my desk.. Have no clue why the KJV is so different, but there it is..

Respectfully submitted,
Gina E

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry.. Amos 7:1.

Gina E

SeanOsborne said...

Jimmy,

Glad you just found Eschatology Today. Explore the site and you will also find many posted items here which get into the details of the things you mentioned. If you do not yet have a copy, I would highly recommend Bill Salus book Isralestine to you, as well as his newest book release Revelation Road. Blessings and Happy Reading!

SeanOsborne said...

Gina E,

Also with all due respect in return, I believe you have entirely missed the point of that first item.

I will repeat it here with emphasis for you and anyone else who might make the same oversight of what I wrote.

Ezekiel is the only prophet recorded in the Holy Bible to which God directly revealed the details about "Gog, of the land of Magog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy concerning him."

Does Amos (7:1) reveal this prophecy about a coming massive invasion attempt against Israel?

No, it does not. Nor does any other prophetic book in the Bible.

This is not about the single word "Gog", it is about the whole of the prophecy of the man "Gog" being the leader of the coming invasion of Israel.

Only Ezekiel in chapters 38/39 detail this coming event.

Anonymous said...

Ack.. I'm sorry.. (working 15 hr night shifts and trying to study apparently isn't working) but thanks for clearing it up for me.

Gina E

SeanOsborne said...

No problem Gina; you're not the only one who made that observation.

Anonymous said...

Sean, Thanks for the Welcome. I will look around. I read Bill Salus' book a couple of years ago. It appears by the Spirit, and knowledge increasing almost everyone is laying the pieces of the puzzle together. Many end-time bible scholars are now aware of the Psalm 83, Isaiah 17, Obadiah etc. correlation perhaps preceding the Magog Invasion. As the scriptures teach "line upon line, and precept upon precept" Thanks again...Jimmy

Anonymous said...

Sean,

1st off, great article. Secondly, I don't know if I have mentioned this in an open statement to our group, but I know Bill S. and I have talked about this possibility, but it is because that YHWH does reveal Himself to the world in Ezekiel 38-39, that I think the Rapture is a pre-Ezekiel 38-39 event. Let me explain:

The Church is defined by being based on "Faith" alone - believing without seeing. I believe, but feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that the last large scale act of the Holy Trinity was Acts 2 when the Shekinah Glory/Holy Spirit came into the believers to create the Church, and begin the Church age. Just the Holy Spirit coming down and dwelling within and it will be the Rapture of the Church that signals the end of the Church age. Since the Church is defined by believing without seeing, I believe that is a good indicator that the Rapture will take us out before YHWH demonstrates He is who the Bible says He is, by wiping out the Gog/Magog coalition forces supernaturally. The ideal of Faith goes out the door, so to speak, when the Father reveals/manifest Himself through the destruction of these forces. I also believe it is that undeniable display of Divine power and rescue from certain destruction that final gives the Temple Inst. in Yisra'el the support necessary to finally construct the Tribulation (3rd) Temple. The rapture will be the 1st World manifestation of the Holy Trinity (Yeshua, in this case) since Act 2, but most of the world will not understand it was Yeshua that has come for His Church... even in many "Christin" churches, as I feel there will be a significant number of folks calling themselves 'Christian' who aren't and who will be left behind (no pun intended). However with Ezekiel 38-39 event, according to the Word, there is no doubt about who saves Yisra'el from certain destruction and wipes her enemies out... no Faith required!

Have we talked about this before? Anyway, interested in your thoughts on my theory.

Blessings,

Maranatha! Mark

Great Grany 5 said...

Thank you Sean for your blessing. I have learned a whole lot during my battle of late and believe me, I truly believe I came out a lot stronger than ever before.
It is God that gives us all sight but sometimes we just take all of His Goodness and Grace for granted. Not anymore.
But back to the subject of our present topic: Magog.
Do you believe that Czar Putin will be the probable leader of this Russian led invasion? Back in 2007 while joining the blog mob at Joel Rosenberg's, I truly did think it would be Pres. Putin. Especially after he started making plans to move into a permanent position of supreme authority in Russia.
However, I am now having a big question mark regarding his continued reign. I know that Vladimir is very motivated and ruthless enough to fit the bill but something in my knower just isn't comfortable with him any longer.
Something major seems to be missing with all of it and I don't have a clue what it is. I am praying because I truly believe that we are supposed to know the "time of our visitation" and when it is time, the Holy Spirit will reveal all that we need to know. However we are not to become lax in our efforts to move in God's perfect timing. Prayers from Intercessors can bring the lost in Russia to repentance and isn't that what the timing for the Rapture is all about?

God bless you richly Sean and all that gather here in the name of Jesus Christ,
GG5

SeanOsborne said...

Mark,

The problem I see with your theory is as follows.

The core message found in Ez. 38:16 reads in Young's Literal Translation:

"...I have brought thee in against My land, In order that the nations may know Me..."

Notice three key words in the above... "in order that"

They have not actually seen God in this act per se, instead they have been eyewitnesses to a 2,600-year old prophetic act of His will.

Therefore, any conversion in faith to belief in Him is an act of pure faith for that man or woman or those young adults above the 'age of accountability.'

Why would God so manifestly reveal Himself to the nations (goyim), prompting conversion in faith to Him, after the Harpazo has occurred?

Sorry, but I cannot buy into your theory.

The Harpazo is always an imminent event, but this verse is viewed by myself as an indicator toward which season this blessed hope event may occur. I view this Ez. 38:16 verse as reinforcement of that found in Ez. 39:29 regarding His timing and the pouring out of His Spirit upon all Israel.

SeanOsborne said...

Another key word in Ez. 38:16

"...In order that the nations may know Me...

The Hebrew word for know is yada` meaning for the nations (goyim)to acquire knowledge, to recognise, acknowledge and confess God.

hartdawg said...

Question....many "scholars" believe Joel chapter 2 is one and the same as gog /magog. have you ever heard that? what do you say about that? also, will Bill salus new book ever hit bookstores (Barnes&noble)?

SeanOsborne said...

Hartdawg,

No, Joel 2 is not about the Gog of Magog attempt to invade Israel. On the contrary Joel 2 is about the day ofthe Lord, Tribulation and Har Meggiddo in other words.

Verse 20 has some resemblance, but only vaguely. I would say verse 20 is a fulfilled prophecy regarding the Assyrian king Sennacherib and the Lord's destruction of his Assyrian army in 701 BC (God brings instant death to 185,000 of the Assyrian soldiers who were beseiging Jerusalem) See also: II Kings 18:13-19:37; II Chronicles 32:9-22; and especially Isaiah 36-37.

Barnes & Noble is selling Bill Salus' "Revelation Road" as an Nook or Kindle eBook, I believe for about $9.99, and Amazon.com is selling the paperback for $19.95' Books-A-Million (BAM!) for $21.95; or better yet buy it directly from Bill for $19.95.

Dawn said...

Sean,

So how does Gog and Magog get wiped out twice?

Revelation 20:7-10
King James Version (KJV)
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Grant it, it's not in great detail as in Ezekiel, but the results are the same. At the end of the millennium, Israel will be dwelling in peace and safety. Gog and Magog will come with others, surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city and get burned up by God.

Just wondering. :)

SeanOsborne said...

Dawn writes:

"So how does Gog and Magog get wiped out twice?"

Very briefly, the answer is Gog doesn't get wiped out twice. Gog attemts to invade Israel and is killed and buried. Revelation speaks of an entirely different "Gog and Magog." Most everyone who knowns anything about Bible prophecy understands these differences, and is able to move beyond them into further prophecy study.

However, with you I may have to go into some additional detail.

The detailed answer is that Ezekiel 38/39 speaks of a LITERAL prophecy from God regarding a literal man who is referred to as Gog OF Magog, chief prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. Gog is buried in the earth along with all his confederate troops in the Valley of Hamon Gog east of the Dead Sea after they are annihilated following an attempt to invade and plunder Israel. You might note here that Satan is not doing the deceiving, Satan doesn't bring these troops upon Israel. God does this in His own Divine Sovereignty.

Revelation 20:7-10 is about Gog AND Magog which is a figurative reference to the men of the nations of the world which are deceived by Satan and revolt against Christ and the saints in Jerusalem at the end of the Millennium.

Clearly, as you must be able to see by now, THE RESULTS ARE NOT THE SAME, NOR IS THE PURPOSE THE SAME, NOR IS THE TARGET THE SAME, NOR IS THE TIME OF THE ATTACK THE SAME.

Additionally, in Ezekiel's prophecy God leaves but a sixth part of the invaders. They are not all killed.

In Revelation God's fire from Heaven kills them all. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire with antichrist and false prophet for all eternity.

So, Dawn, if you still cannot see the very acute differences between these two prophecies, I will pray for you to gain wisdom and understanding.

Great Grany 5 said...

Sean,
Just finished reading DebkaFile and they are reporting that Iran has or will have very shortly, a missile that can strike the USA. If this is true, could the response of missiles heading back to Iran from Israel and the US be the catalyst for Ez. 38 and 39?
I read your previous comment about the other ingredients needed before that scene is played out but the question just lingers anyway. I do believe that EZ. 38 and 39 will precede Jesus' shout to the church but by how much? I know that the time is unknown but the season is upon us and all of the signs sure are coming together rapidly.
I get excited knowing that we are experiencing this timing of God's warnings but also very sad at the realization of how unprepared most of the Believers of Jesus Christ are.
I have wonderful friends that truly believe everyone saved will have to stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgment. They do not understand because they do not study God's word. Or if they do read it, it is only a few verses here and there.
And to think that the church will be without spot or blemish one day---
Well, Glory!

SeanOsborne said...

Great Grany 5 wrote:

"Just finished reading DebkaFile and they are reporting that Iran has or will have very shortly, a missile that can strike the USA. If this is true..."

It is true. I wrote on exactly this topic one year ago - Iran's ICBM Capability On Global Display - but the most that report elicited was a couple of jokes. I was dead serious. Oh well. I can take solace in the fact that I beat all other sources, including DEBKAfile, in reporting this fact by a full year.

Grany continued...
"...could the response of missiles heading back to Iran from Israel and the US be the catalyst for Ez. 38 and 39?"

I would interpret His Word to say that our response might better be a fulfillment of Jeremiah 49:34-39.

I believe this because the catalyst for judgement was determined by God in ancient days prior to when He had Ezekiel write the prophecy down (Ezekiel 38:17).

Remember, the catalyst for Ezekiel 38-39 is the Lord's unambiguous purpose of revealing Himself to the gentile nations as seen in verse 16 (as already discussed in the article above) and to return Israel into covenant (Temple) worship of Himself.

I believe that Harpazo is virtually concurrent with the concluding events of Ezekiel 38/39. I believe the Bride of Christ is already in Heaven with the Lord while Israel picks up the bones of Gog's armies for burial in the Valley of the Passengers as seen in Ezekiel 39:11-15.

Great Grany 5 said...

Sean,
Thank you for your response. I missed your comments regarding Jeremiah 49 last year but I just finished reading it. I truly feel ashamed because about 10 years ago I spent a great deal of time studying Jeremiah and I should have remembered what the Holy Spirit had inspired Jeremiah to foretell.
This has now stirred me up to dig out all of my past studies because I think all of that topic was well shared.
Sean, I admire your dedication to God's Word and truth. One very important reason I cherish your work of love for The Word. Also, I do recognize the importance of the Holy Spirit's work within you. Wisdom from Him will always supersede any clever devised efforts to deceive the true Believers.

Shalom

hartdawg said...

Sean i have been taught as a kid that the harpazo is concurren with ezekiel 38&39 as you stated (i was blessed with a church that taught prophecy,a rarity these days) in my church it was frequently said "when russia attacks isreal the rapture will come likewise when the rapture occurs russia will attack isreal the occur around the same time" the position i still hold. they just weren't sure which came first. im sooo thankful i was brought up in a church that taught prophecy....PRAISE GOD!!!

SeanOsborne said...

John C.Dempsey said...

"Thanks , I've recently been looking for information about this topic for a long time and yours is the greatest I've came upon till now. But, what in regards to the bottom line? Are you sure in regards to the supply?"

Thanks John, much appreciated.

I'm sorry for having to delete your link. It's an unwritten rule that 3rd party links are not allowed for the safety and security concerns of everyone who visits here own PC or laptop. The last thing I want to see is someone get mashed with malicious code or similar cyber malady. This is a part of my work that I bring home and to this blog.

My bottom line regarding Ezekiel 38/39 is best summed up as follows:

In my study of Ezekiel 38/39 I have come to the assessment (assessments are temporary and can be updated as new insights or information come to light) that the entire event is not a war per se, but rather a very short term attempted invasion. The attempt is made and, as the enemy troops arrive in what will by then be an expanded Israel, they are literally dumbfounded by the Lord and annihilate each other in indescribable slaughter as the Lord sends fire upon their homelands. Israel spends the following seven moths afterwards burying bones and shards of bones and the concurrent seven years burning the enemies war materiel as fuel.

Sheba and Dedan is literally represented by the regions the Romans had named Arabix Felix (Fortunate Arabia - i.e. Yemen) and Arabia Deserta (the rest of the Arabian Peninsula). Together Sheba and Dedan represent the whole of the Arabian Peninsula, the soon-to-be former home and origin of Islam.

The third party mentioned needs to be addressed on the whole: "the merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions thereof." This single identity is actually an expansive group of nations, languages and peoples which equates to Western Europe, the entire Western Hemisphere, Australia and New Zealand. Tarshish is literally the vast bulk of the mercantile powers of this world. Given Israel's by-then new found status as an economic and financial powerhouse this association is easily conceptualized as a reality for the near-future.

Together we have Israel, "the West" and the Arab nations linked in direct association with one another - exactly as this association began in the post World War II era and as it is being strengthened today through Western/NATO assistance to the so-called "Arab Spring Movement" (resurgent Sunni Islam with the lone exception of Turkey) and the secular yet ecumenical effort of the Globalists to link Arab Muslims with the "Christian West" under the umbrella of each constituting part of an "Abrahamic Religion" on the whole. This "Abrahamic Religion" aspect will be a key cog in the coming "covenant among many" world security arrangement (false peace treaty).

Anonymous said...

Hi Sean,

What about the angels who fly about warning the nations not to take the mark of the beast?

I think God will do everything in his power during the time of judgement and before that to warn the nations.....during this time people will have no excuse. It will be plain before each face, choose you this day whom ye will serve. However, there will be great deception too.

Can't see your argument here. I believe this could go either way after looking at the text. Also, I am coming to the conclusion that the rapture will occur at a time when people think not.

By the time of the Ezek battle everything is going to be crazy. I am not saying we won't still be here......just don't think your argument is substantial. Susan

SeanOsborne said...

Anonymous wrote:

"What about the angels who fly about warning the nations not to take the mark of the beast?"

The point is that I believe the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39 occurs prior to Daniel's 70th Week.

Therefore, the question you ask is irrelevant to my position on Ezekiel 38/39 -- the angelic warning not to take the mark of the beast is still some time into the future when Ezekiel 38/39 is fulfilled.

Paul Curcione said...

Hi Sean,
First time posting. Just found your blog. I have been searching for as many voices as I can hear regarding the timing of the Ezekiel 38 battle. Interestingly, I have found many voices believing this to be the same battle as Armageddon.

I agree there are many similarities, but there are several differences that make me conclude, Ezekiel must be prior to Daniels 70th week.

As for the harpazo you referenced, again I am uncertain at the timing of this. It appears to me that the rapture is in Rev 7:9 and following, which means this comes after the 6th seal and before the trumpet and bowl judgments. (Pre wrath). However, I haven't dismissed the pre tribulational viewpoint because I see merit in that too. I'm still open minded on that one too. Lol

Anyhow, I've read a few blogs and I just want to say thanks and keep up the good work.

Shalom,
Paul

Sean Osborne said...

Hi Paul,

Welcome and thank you very much for posting your comment!

Also, another indicator is that during the 70th Week of Gabriel's prophecy, the Lord has poured out His Spirit, and therefore Israel is no longer in a state of disbelief. I have long noted that this occurs at the end of Ezekiel 39. Ezekiel 39:29 specifically, and it is also just prior to the construction of the Temple and re-establishment of worship there.

While no one can know the exact timing of the Harpazo, there are clues. Here are the most important one.

A.)Revelation 3:10 (i.e. which speaks to the faithful church, the Bride of Christ being kept from the judgments) resonates powerfully with why it is pre-70th Week, and...

B.) Revelation 4:1-2 constitutes the clincher of an instantaneous translation into a Spiritual existence and presence in Heaven prior to the 70th Week's commencement.

C.) The 70th Week commences with the first word of Revelation 6:1 as Jesus begins opening the Seals of Judgment upon the earth.

Marana'tha!