15 January 2012: The current conditions in Israel do not merit talk of the imminent fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39. There is much to be fulfilled prior to those conditions being met.
In fact, one need not bother to ask the residents of Sderot, Be'ersheva, Ashdod or anywhere in Judea or Samaria if any of the five following conditions are true as they are plainly evident as untrue:
1.) All Israel is not dwelling securely (yashab betach) at the present time;
2.) Israel is not a land of unwalled villages ('erets pĕrazah);
3.) Israel is not at undisturbed rest, dwelling without walls, bars or gates (shaqat yashab chowmah bĕriyach deleth) (Ez. 38:11);
4.) With no one to make them afraid (charad) (Ez. 39:26);
5.) Nor is Israel yet in possession of the valley of the passengers east of the sea (gay' `abar qidmah yam) (Ez. 39:11).
When ALL 5 of the above prophetic conditions are plainly evident, then talk about the imminence of Ezekiel 38/39 fulfillment will be appropriate.
I'm actually shocked at the lack of scholarship from prophecy experts who say gog/magog is right around the corner. to me it makes absolutely no sense.i think their talk comes from newspaper exogesis.
ReplyDeleteI brought this up once to an "expert" and he said "dwelling securily means dwelling carelessly, unwalled villages is simply a reference to modern times and noone to meke them afraid means the IDF is superior so they're not afraid" WHAT NONSENSE! where do you think they get this reasoning? i don't get it.
ReplyDeleteSo numbers 1-4 all = dwelling securely, which I've seen argued either way.
ReplyDeleteand as for #5, can you point to where that is on a map to confirm that Israel does not currently contain the valley which is being described there?
Otherwise, it sounds a lot like trying hard to find reasons why something can't be that actually very well could be. Although I've heard other more convincing reasons why Ezekiel's war is not the next event to happen, because there are other events that must occur first.
God bless.
hartdawg wrote:
ReplyDelete"I'm actually shocked at the lack of scholarship from prophecy experts who say...
What prophecy "experts"?
There is NO SUCH THING as a Bible prophecy expert. Never has there been, never will there be a "Bible prophecy expert."
There are no such legitimate person or persons who desire to set themselves up as such.
The ONLY Bible prophecy "expert" is the Holy Spirit. Period.
The text of Ezekiel 38/39 is as literal as literal it gets. It is as literal as is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
C'mon hartdawg... Why am I having explain such fundamentals regarding Bible prophecy? You know these answers as they have been covered in-depth both here and at the Lamb & Lion blog. You know this.
Buckle up Bro.
"Jay said...
ReplyDelete...as for #5, can you point to where that is on a map to confirm that Israel does not currently contain the valley which is being described there?
Jay,
You might wanna search this blog with something more cursory than a brief glance to determine that Israel does not currently possess the valley of the passengers east of the Dead Sea.
"Buckle up bro" i like that. lol. Yes you're absolutely right....i guess i just get a little irked when people try to take away from the literal interpretation of God's word to fit there own presuppositions. i imagine you heard it all. I'm not looking for gog/magog I'm looking for jesus and keeping an eye on Damascus and psalm 83 nations. both events seem imminent but ezekiel 38/39 is not imminent.
ReplyDeleteJay,
ReplyDeleteI'm going to make it easy for you to locate the "valley of the passengers". LOOK HERE. You will no doubt notice that this location is presently within the borders of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
There are indeed other prophetic events which must occur prior to Ezekiel 38/39.
Don't you agree?
hartdawg,
ReplyDeleteAmen Bro, we all need to "buckle up" now and then; especially in these days and those to come until the Harpazo occurs.
Time is short and getting shorter with every passing day. We know that we still have significant work to do before the shout of the archangel is heard. Now is not the time to beat around the proverbial bush.
Yep, thanks Sean.
ReplyDeleteJust seemed like this post was straining for reasons when there are more prominent and stronger reasons why Ezekiel 38/39 is not likely the next major world event. =)
God bless.
Jay,
ReplyDeleteNo straining involved. I think I stated precisely the reasons behinds this post in the first two sentences. The fact is, there are no more prominent or stronger reasons than the Word of God itself.
I then defined from Scripture, i.e. God's point-of-view, the five specific criteria direct from the text of Ezekiel that prove the point - the Battle of Gog/Magog is not the next major prophet event, which means inherently that other events must occur first. This is how interpretation of Biblical text is subjected to proper hermeneutics.
I'm not sure how deeply you are involved in Bible eschatology, but there are those who have a penchant to make bold, public declarations because a newspaper headline recently appeared announcing (error prone 'newspaper exegesis' is the proper term): "RUSSIA: ATTACK ON IRAN IS AN ATTACK ON MOSCOW." They wrongly interpret such non-Scripture to exegete that Ezekiel 38/39 is next.
The point of this post was to definitively illustrate that despite newspaper headlines God has laid out certain unassailable facts within His Word that must become facts in our world before the prophecy can be fulfilled.
Actually I think the next prophetic signes will be rampant unemployment, unsustainable national debt, financial collapse, continued loss of personal liberty, and increased isolation and persecution of Christians worldwide.....Oh wait a minute...well go ahead and check these off the list!
ReplyDeleteBut not so tounge in cheeck, I think we are likley to see a conflict in the Middle East that involves Israel heavely and if it is not the Psalms 83 war, it will absolutley set it up! In my opinion, there must be some occurance that will make Israel feel at peace and secure enough to relax their security concerns, and the crushing defeat of Hizballah/Hamas, and the total wiping out of Syria I think would accomplish that. Just my opinion.
As sean pointed out there are no prophecy "experts" and i never claim to be one. i try to listen to the holy spirit but i am not infallible.
ReplyDeletethat being said it seems to me that Isaiah 17 or Jeremiah 49 is next, prior to psalm 83 which is prior to ezekiel 38&39. Correct me if I'm wrong....please!
Quoting Sean:
ReplyDelete"What prophecy "experts"?
"There is NO SUCH THING as a Bible prophecy expert. Never has there been, never will there be a "Bible prophecy expert."
"The ONLY Bible prophecy "expert" is the Holy Spirit. Period."
Agreed.
hartdawg,
ReplyDeleteI think you're correct and so is Drew.
There is another prophet we should read regarding these issues... the same prophet that Daniel read before the angel Gabriel came to him and began prophesying and giving him the understanding of the prophecies he would write down for us.
That prophet is Jeremiah
I would suggest we study Jeremiah 30 like Bereans.
This chapter initiates the 'end times' theme Jesus spoke of regarding the "sorrows" [birth pangs] of the last days and the 70th Week. This chapter of Jeremiah is also a prophecy in the process of literal fulfillment.
Enjoy!
Not to hijack this blog, but I just listned to the president's state of the union speech. We are so in trouble!
ReplyDeleteI quote..."And we will safeguard America's own security against those who threaten our citizens, our friends, and our interests. Look at Iran. Through the power of our diplomacy, a world that was once divided about how to deal with Iran's nuclear program now stands as one. The regime is more isolated than ever before; its leaders are faced with crippling sanctions, and as long as they shirk their responsibilities, this pressure will not relent. Let there be no doubt: America is determined to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, and I will take no options off the table to achieve that goal. But a peaceful resolution of this issue is still possible, and far better, and if Iran changes course and meets its obligations, it can rejoin the community of nations."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/24/transcript-obamas-2012-state-union/#ixzz1kRMtGo1u
He truly believes that if he is personally nice to them, and getss the rest of the world to agree not to buy their oil, then everything will be OK! His arrogance is going to get a lot of Americans killed.
Right you are Drew.
ReplyDeleteKnowing full-well how much Barack Hussein Obama II-Barry Soetoro personally dislikes the British, I still have to say that this president is Neville Chamberlain on steroids.