IMPORTANT UPDATE 24 August 2012: It's "official" yours truly has been banned from making any further comments to "Joel Richardson's" blog items. This banning came as a result of my attempt to post on "Joel's" (his real name is Richard) blog the same basic information I had posted to this Eschatology Today blog three years ago. That information comes directly from "Mr. Richardson's" beloved Quran, Sura 18 ("The Cave"), verses 83-99 which inform the reader that the land of Magog (from whence comes Gog of Magog) is north of the Caucasus Mountains, i.e. modern-day Russia. Here then is my truth-be-told, ban-inducing comment which "Joel Richardson's" readers, followers, supporters and acolytes dare not be informed of lest their erstwhile mentor be revealed to be the eisegetical prevaricator that he is.
"Anyone who thinks that Gog of Magog will be the “Islamic Antichrist” is committing the grave error of eisegesis.
Now, mind you, I care not one iota what the Quran says, but any Muslim will tell you that Sura 18 Al-Kahf (The Cave) presents a story of the person of Alexander III of Macedon (Alexander the Great).
The Quran’s Sura 18 story relates how Alexander pushed his empire to the west and saw the sun set. Then Alexander pushed his empire to the east and saw the sun rise. Then Alexander pushed his empire to the north, to the Caucasus Mountains and beyond, where was found the people of Gog-Magog.
The Quran (Edit: borrowing heavily from Ezekiel 38/39) tells you in plain text that Gog of Magog lies NORTH OF THE CAUCASUS.
Richard, I suggest you read your beloved Quranic source, Sura 18:83-99 to see what Muslims believe regarding Gog and Magog; how Alexander built a wall to keep the Magogians (“the corrupters of the earth”) out of the lands that lie to the south. (Edit: i.e. out of Asia Minor/Turkey and the rest of the Middle East to the south)
Interestingly enough, Alexander’s encounter with the Magog peoples (the Scythians) north of the Caucasus is also noted by Falvius Josephus. The Wars of the Jews, VII, vii.
Seems you have some re-calibrating to do, doesn’t it?"
Indeed, not only would a recalibration of the entire Islamic Antichrist theory be in order, but a wholesale flushing of it would be more appropriate. The islamic Antichrist theory is rubbish and it has been exposed as such for the second time since 10 September 2009. Game over Richard.
20 August 2012: One of the looniest ideas I have ever come across is the idea that the results of an agenda-driven secular survey can trump the Word of God. Yes, the idea that the sheer demographics of Islam will reign supreme over the State of Israel is laughable at best, so it should come as no surprise dear readers that once again "Joel Richardson" is the source of this ill-timed good humor. The problem is that he really believes it, he really, really fears it, and he's doing his best, along with WorldNetDaily.com, to make the Bride of Christ fear it.
"Anyone who thinks that Gog of Magog will be the “Islamic Antichrist” is committing the grave error of eisegesis.
Now, mind you, I care not one iota what the Quran says, but any Muslim will tell you that Sura 18 Al-Kahf (The Cave) presents a story of the person of Alexander III of Macedon (Alexander the Great).
The Quran’s Sura 18 story relates how Alexander pushed his empire to the west and saw the sun set. Then Alexander pushed his empire to the east and saw the sun rise. Then Alexander pushed his empire to the north, to the Caucasus Mountains and beyond, where was found the people of Gog-Magog.
The Quran (Edit: borrowing heavily from Ezekiel 38/39) tells you in plain text that Gog of Magog lies NORTH OF THE CAUCASUS.
Richard, I suggest you read your beloved Quranic source, Sura 18:83-99 to see what Muslims believe regarding Gog and Magog; how Alexander built a wall to keep the Magogians (“the corrupters of the earth”) out of the lands that lie to the south. (Edit: i.e. out of Asia Minor/Turkey and the rest of the Middle East to the south)
Interestingly enough, Alexander’s encounter with the Magog peoples (the Scythians) north of the Caucasus is also noted by Falvius Josephus. The Wars of the Jews, VII, vii.
Seems you have some re-calibrating to do, doesn’t it?"
Indeed, not only would a recalibration of the entire Islamic Antichrist theory be in order, but a wholesale flushing of it would be more appropriate. The islamic Antichrist theory is rubbish and it has been exposed as such for the second time since 10 September 2009. Game over Richard.
20 August 2012: One of the looniest ideas I have ever come across is the idea that the results of an agenda-driven secular survey can trump the Word of God. Yes, the idea that the sheer demographics of Islam will reign supreme over the State of Israel is laughable at best, so it should come as no surprise dear readers that once again "Joel Richardson" is the source of this ill-timed good humor. The problem is that he really believes it, he really, really fears it, and he's doing his best, along with WorldNetDaily.com, to make the Bride of Christ fear it.
The attempt this time to to say that Muslim demographics trumps the Word of God, that Muslim demographics assure an islamic victory, which assures an islamic antichrist, which assures an islamic world conquering empire... yada, yada, yada. If I were to do a parody of this latest idea it would have to be titled "The Muslims Are Coming, The Muslims Are Coming!" Yes, indeed, "Emergency, everybody to get from street" is what we're being told in so many words, and like I've said, when compared to God's Word, this is almost roll-on-the-floor laughable.
If you've not read it yet, the Gary Stearman article linked below provides all the Scripture references required to clearly see the loon factor of such ridiculous fear mongering. Islam is soon to become extinct. If that article should prove insufficient, then perhaps the Biblical account of 2 Kings 19 and 2 Chronicles 32 regarding the hand of God dispatching 185,000 Assyrian soldiers while they slept might provide the proper perspective. Or perhaps we should more appropriately consider the repeated miracles in the wars Israel has fought over the past six decades against this Arab Islamist enemy as a forerunner of what will occur in the near future, bearing in mind that the archangel Michael will personally rise to Israel's defense (see Daniel 10:21 and 12:1). Yes, the snake oil salesmen would have you believe the false god of Islam prevails over Michael and his angels; that Michael and his angels win in Heaven but loose on earth; that Israel wins every battle against Islam except for Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38/39.
You know it and I know it, this is latest idea is pure contrary to the Word of God nonsense.
Hear! Hear! Great point you've made again Sean. These Islamic Antichrist "one trick ponies" are about to see their theories literally burn up in front of them.
ReplyDeleteAll the "filthy lucre" they make off deceiving the sheep will come back to haunt them later. This is what happens when you put more stock in books of men than the Word of God.
Keep fighting for the truth Sean. March forward with a Bible in one hand and the sword of God in the other!!
God bless.
I like your reference to the Russians are coming....that was one of my favorite movies as a little kid. still have a copy of it somewhere. in order to disprove the Islamic AC lie just ask the most basic questions. will the muslims attempt to destroy Israel as psalm 83 says and fail miserably, then try it again and be supernaturally defeated by God? then suddenly be hailed as the worlds peacemaker and messiah after attempting to annihilate Israel twice, this in addition to the current attacks and threats against Israel?MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!!
ReplyDeleteChris,
ReplyDeleteIt has gotten to the point that no one should take Joel's words seriously as they are indeed a laughable joke. That's why I took the lighthearted track on this rebuttal -- there are so many blatant errors in what he writes that it has become just plain ridiculous.
While putting this response together I also had a another, slightly more important rebuttal to make. It was made with respect to Joel's complete ignorance regarding Isaiah 17, the destruction of Damascus, nuclear weaponry and their real-world effects. He made some very erroneous comments and tied them to a graphic image that has no relation to reality.
The rebuttal is located smack dab in the middle of the More Islamic Antichrist Utter Confusion: Isaiah 17.
Sean, your comment about how Israel by God has won all the wars against their Islamic neighbors so will surely win the next ones is an excellent point. God has a track record there that will not be broken. Thanks for that!
ReplyDeletehartdawg,
ReplyDeleteYou are quite correct - the way these non-Dispensationalist folks twist prophetic meaning makes absolutely no sense.
But there's the rub and the answer of why they so twist prophetic meaning - they are non-Dispensationalists.
Like a snake eating its own tail they seem to view Divine prophecy as circular logic which they view from the edge of the disc.
Flabbergasting.
Nathan,
ReplyDeleteYup, it's all about templates, forerunners, precursors.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."
Sean,
ReplyDeleteI will go you one better; I do not believe they really are born again Christians. PERIOD! Now before everyone starts screaming "you are judging" I will tell you point blank: You bet I am and it was only by examining their fruit. A GOOD tree produces good fruit but a wormy tree produces bad fruit--WORMY! The Husbandman knows which is which and it will be up to the Angels to separate them in the end.
Anyone who sets their minds to destroying the unity of the Body of Christ is not of the sheepfold that the Good Shepherd covers. They are the wolves in sheep's clothing.
One of the reasons the church is in the condition it is in now, is because just like the Jews did, we have refused to separate this type of garbage from the body of Believers. We have been guilty of allowing apostate traditions, teachings, and bible interpretation to come into the fellowship and then we have allowed them to stay.
The Righteousness of Jesus Christ is what separates a Believer from the World. Not of ourselves but of the Holy Spirit that is supposed to indwell each and everyone of us. Sure we are to love our brothers and sisters in Christ but Jesus said to come out from among them and be ye separated from the World.
Just my 1 1/2 cents worth.
AW, I feel better already.
Shalom, GG5
My thought exactly sean! i said it before, and you have as well many times i think, if one denies the dispensation (literal) interpretation and the pre 70th week rapture all his/her other presuppositions come crashing down and can't be trusted to get it right.
ReplyDeleteGG5,
ReplyDeleteYour point about the fruit thereof is the Gospel truth. It is Doctrine!
And when Paul both spoke and wrote 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 he was speaking with the power of the Holy Spirit. He was speaking Doctrine.
Those who deny Doctrine.. well that kind of fruit is obviously rotten.
Sean,
ReplyDeleteIsn't it interesting that someone who defiles God's Holy Scriptures comes on here and calls everyone a Moron, retarded Moron and Jerks? Boy, that really sounds like someone who know Jesus Christ personally. How can anyone who is Born Again, filled with the Holy Spirit desire anyone to go to 'Hell'?
Goes to show when the flesh gets stirred up, it reacts violently.
Shalom,GG5
Precisely GG5, absolutely and precisely.
ReplyDeleteNothing has changed in the past 4 years, which is why I am willingly in the trenches with the likes of this brood.
I don't mind it one bit so that my Brothers do not have to waste their time with such patently ridiculous, non-Biblical nonsense.
I have no problem with the required chore of "taking out the trash." I consider it a "hooah!" task for the Lord.
Sean....why didn't you delete "anonymous'" unchristlike comment? its your blog, I'm just curious
ReplyDeleteTo use it as a prime example in order to prove that GG5's and my comments above are correct regarding the unChristian fruit of this brood.
ReplyDeleteThis posted comment damages "Joel Richardson," his discredited teaching and his followers more significantly than anything we could write in rebuttal.
This exposes them completely. It is in essence a priceless rebuke from the Islamic Antichrist camp itself against itself.
Give 'em enough rope... you know the rest Bro!
Sean,
ReplyDeleteI almost spewed my coffee when I read your "taking out the trash" comment. That is so funny. :-) And sadly that's exactly what the "Islamic Antichrist" theory is. Garbage. It's a shame folks are deceived by this nonsense.
Poor "Joel" said on his site he thinks Gog is the Antichrist. I hate to break it to him but Gog sees burial in the mountains of Israel per Ezekiel 38-39 whereas the Antichrist doesn't see burial per Isaiah 14:20.
He sounds more and more like ol' Walid who thinks the AC and FP are one and the same. LOL
I just finished reading Jude and man, does it ever fit right in with this discussion. I won't copy the whole passage but this is serious right now Warnings to the persons of our discussion, including Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteJude 1:3 Dear friends, although I have been eager to write to you about our common salvation, I now feel compelled instead to write to encourage you to contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 1:4 For certain men have secretly slipped in among you, men who long ago were marked out for the condemnation I am about to describe – ungodly men who have turned the grace of our God into a license for evil and who deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
1:5 Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe. 1:6 You also know that the angels who did not keep within their proper domain but abandoned their own place of residence, he has kept in eternal chains in utter darkness, locked up for the judgment of the Great Day. 1:7 So also Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighboring towns, since they indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in a way similar to these angels, are now displayed as an example by suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
1:8 Yet these men, as a result of their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and insult the glorious ones. 1:9 But even when Michael the archangel was arguing with the devil and debating with him concerning Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a slanderous judgment, but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”
1:10 But these men do not understand the things they slander, and they are being destroyed by the very things that, like irrational animals, they instinctively comprehend.
1:11 Woe to them!
For they have traveled down Cain’s path, and because of greed have abandoned themselves to Balaam’s error; hence, they will certainly perish in Korah’s rebellion.
1:12 These men are dangerous reefs at your love feasts, feasting without reverence, feeding only themselves. They are waterless clouds, carried along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit – twice dead, uprooted; 1:13 wild sea waves, spewing out the foam of their shame; wayward stars for whom the utter depths of eternal darkness have been reserved.
1:16 These people are grumblers and fault-finders who go wherever their desires lead them, and they give bombastic speeches, enchanting folks for their own gain."
I don't remember reading this passage before and today it just kinda hit me right between the eyes and the heart. That is a very serious charge from Jude to all of us.
Oh, Lord, Maranatha,
Shalom, GG5
I had second thoughts about allowing that garbage from anonymous to remain here.
ReplyDeleteI agree with hartdawg's advice and have deleted it. A little over 24 hours here is enough; it served its purpose.
I am glad to see the Anymouses comment gone. I have empathy for the person but they will have to deal with their own heart and I leave that conviction in the very able hands of the Holy Spirit!
ReplyDeleteShalom, GG5
Hey Sean,
ReplyDeleteI posted a lengthy post over at Joel's place about the differences between E2kiel 38-39 and Armageddon. It appears that Joel approved two additional comments I made but did not approve the differences post.
That tells me Joel doesn't want to think about that moon sized problem in all his Islamic theory. It pretty much with everything else we've said blown his boat out of the water.
I would imagine the demands for book refunds would probably bankrupt him if his supporters where to think for themselves and see the errors of the Joel Richardson mindset.
Hopefully he will decide to approve the post but I tend to doubt it as this is the second time he has not approved a differences post. He really doesn't want to talk about that. Which means I have a new homework assignment to write another article on the differences between Ezekiel 38-39 and Armadgeddon. I gave him about 12 major differences, he could at least tried to refute one of them. LOL
Chris,
ReplyDeleteYes, I did read your posts and you got those issues covered very nicely.
I also decided to revisit one of the key points which i wrote about on this blog three years ago (SEP 2009), and that is the fact that the Quran locates Gog of Magog NORTH OF THE CAUCASUS MOUNTAINS.
Below your posts on "Joel's" blog I posted the following (which awaits moderator approval of course):
"Anyone who thinks that Gog of Magog will be the “Islamic Antichrist” is committing the grave error of eisegesis.
Now, mind you, I care not one iota what the Quran says, but any Muslim will tell you that Sura 18 Al-Kahf (The Cave) presents a story of the person of Alexander III of Macedon (Alexander the Great).
The Quran’s Sura 18 story relates how Alexander pushed his empire to the west and saw the sun set. Then Alexander pushed his empire to the east and saw the sun rise. Then Alexander pushed his empire to the north, to the Caucasus Mountains and beyond where was found the people of Gog-Magog.
The Quran tells you in plain text that Gog of Magog lies NORTH OF THE CAUCASUS.
Richard, I suggest you read your beloved Quranic source, Sura 18:83-99 to see what Muslims believe regarding Gog and Magog; how Alexander built a wall to keep the Magogians (“the corrupters of the earth”) out of the lands that lie to the south. (Edit: i.e. out of Asia Minor/Turkey and the rest of the Middle East to the south)
Interestingly enough, Alexander’s encounter with the Magog peoples (the Scythians) north of the Caucasus is also noted by Falvius Josephus. The Wars of the Jews, VII, vii.
Seems you have some re-calibrating to do, doesn’t it?"
So, what we have here is the interesting point that even the fully-discredited Quran does correctly locate Gog of Magog north of Turkey in what is modern-day Russia.
Ouch!!!
Ouch indeed Sean!! Joel's website might have to be taken down this weekend so CPR can be administered to it. LOL
ReplyDeleteI know our friend Jack Kelley wrote in one of his articles that there are over 130 historical references to modern day Russia and it's break away republics as the land of Magog. I believe the Great Wall of China is often referred by them as the "ramparts of Magog" to keep the invading people of Magog out. That means that Magog extends all the way East above China. What's above China? Yeppers, Russia.
If Joel's little followers would think for themselves instead of reading his rubbish, they would know all of this.
God bless.
Oh noes!! We've been "banned" from Joel's little website. Boy, that ruined my whole weekend. Not! LOL
ReplyDeleteI see "Joel" still has not approved either of our major posts that showed that Magog is indeed Russia and that Ezekiel 38-39 is not Armageddon. I've said it and will say it again, he still does not want people to have that info for it would utterly destroy the foundations of his silly Islamic Antichrist nonsense.
I guess that is another reason why we have so many problems and splits in the body of Christ. People like Joel just aren't interested in the truth. That's sad. Oh well, one day he will be told by God himself that he is wrong. We'll watch and see if he can hand wave that one off.
Rapture Forums wrote...
ReplyDelete"Oh noes!! We've been "banned" from Joel's little website."
Indeed we have been.
Excellent!
We can declare victory because "Joel" can't handle the truth that even his beloved Muslims accept regarding the physical geographic location of Magog being north of the Caucasus Mountains.
LOL!!!
So much for the rise of a Middle Eastern "Islamic Antichrist" and his being one and the same as Gog of Magog.
Amen.
Well, looks like "Joel" let his "hyenas" over there take a few nips before he banned us. That doesn't show any class on Joel's part. It actually makes him look bad because he won't approve two posts that he doesn't want his little followers to read. What a cult.
ReplyDeleteIt just shows that he let's other people do his dirty work for him so he can sit back and try to look like a good guy when he is really a false teacher peddling "buffalo bagels". How childish is that that he can't do his own defending. He "can't, couldn't, wouldn't, won't" even defend his own book and theories. His idea is to ask thousands of questions of other people when it is HIM that has to prove his theory, not us.
But alas we did our part. We took out the trash over there. Hooah!!!
All I've heard over there is "read the book, read the book" well I'm not gonna read the book. I don't have time to waste with such utter garbage. I don't read the satanic and false prophet (Mohammed) inspired koran, and the same principle is applied to Joel's written mindless drivel.
I still see that "Joel" has not posted a single objection to the contrasts between Ezekiel 38-39 and Armageddon. He doesn't even have the "guts" to approve our major posts that totally destroy his little theory. Everything he teaches rests on the bedrock that these two events are one and the same, and any one can see that they are not. That is except for Joel and his hyenas. LOL
I think it would only be fair for Joel's audience (since the visit and post nasty stuff here) to see the "forbidden" contrasts and differences between Ezekiel 38-39 and Armageddon.
ReplyDeleteHappy Reading!!
Q. What are some of the main differences between the Battle of Gog and Magog, and the Battle of Armageddon?
A. This is a vital question to answer, because many people equate the two, or include the first as part of the second. But there are many differences that make these conclusions quite improbable.
First there is the time element involved. While no time is specified for the Battle of Gog and Magog, most evangelical, premillennial, pre-Tribulational scholars place it at or near the beginning of the Tribulation. The Battle of Armageddon takes place at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 16:16; 19:11-21).
Second, the participants of the conflicts are different. In the Battle of Gog and Magog, a great power to the north (possibly Russia or one or more former “southern-tier” Islamic Soviet republics) will move against Israel, along with specific nations, mostly Islamic and in the Middle East or northern Africa (Ezekiel 38:1-6). The Battle of Armageddon will include representative armies from all nations of the world (Joel 3:2; Zechariah 14:2).
Third is the direction of the attack. Since the Battle of Gog and Magog is led by a great power to the north of Israel, and some of its allies are from that direction as well, the attack will come primarily from the north (Ezekiel 38:15). Since the Battle of Armageddon involves all the nations of the world, they will come from all four directions.
Fourth, there is the purpose for the attack. The Battle of Magog’s objective is “To take a spoil, and to take a prey” (Ezekiel 38:12). Perhaps some of the attackers, several of which are virtually landlocked, will seek a warm-water port in Israel. Others may seek some of Israel’s mineral deposits, such as are purported to be in the Dead Sea. At Armageddon, the intent is to totally eliminate Israel once and for all (Zechariah 12:2-3) and later, to oppose Christ Himself who returns to fight on behalf of Israel (Revelation 19:19).
Fifth, the leaders of the attack are also different. At Gog and Magog, the leader will be Russia or another former Soviet republic (Ezekiel 38:3). At Armageddon, it will be the Antichrist, who, by that time, will be the undisputed world leader (Revelation 19:19).
Finally, the casualties will be disposed of differently. At Gog and Magog, the dead will be buried (Ezekiel 39:12-15). At Armageddon, the dead will be left on the field of battle, to become food for birds of prey (Revelation 19:17-21).
However, despite all of these differences, we should point out one similarity, and that is the outcome. In both cases, God will win and will gain victory on behalf of His people, Israel. After the great victory at Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 39:1-7), one would think that the unregenerate world would get the message. But only a few years later, on an even larger scale, the world will again gather its forces against Israel and against the Lord at Armageddon. The old adage will be proven again: the one thing people learn from history, is that they don’t learn from history.
So there we have it. anyone with one iota of reading comprehension will see that it is impossible for Ezekiel 38-39 and Armageddon to be one and the same conflict, thereby destroying the "Islamic Antichrist paradigm" which means there's no reason to buy Joel..er..Richard's book.
Yes, game over Richard.
Due to space constraints in my above post I was not able to list the original 6 contrasts/differences that Joel completely ignored (couldn't refute) the other day:
ReplyDelete1. Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 is about certain countries (coalition) coming to invade Israel. Armageddon is about the whole world being against Israel.
2. The weapons of Ezekiel 38-39 are used for fuel for 7 years, which is not possible during the MK as God will be providing everything we need. He will provide everything we need on the newly renovated earth.
3. The bodies require 7 months to be buried. The MK starts with a newly renovated earth, not people being buried for 7 months.
4. Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 talks of what is described as nuclear weapons clean up, again this would not be necessary in a newly renovated earth.
5. The armies of Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 are destroyed in the mountains of Israel likely on the border. In Armageddon the enemies are destroyed in the plains of Meggido.
6. In Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 the armies are destroyed supernaturally by God using his classic tools of fire, brimstone, hailstones, etc. At Armageddon the Lord will defeat his enemies with his Word.
We saw first-hand in the now deleted comment to this blog what a vile, unChristlike and apostate brood that camp is. Good riddance to them as far as this blog is concerned. They preach not the Gospel of Jesus Christ nor are they inspired of the Holy Spirit as Paul warns us in Galatians 1:7-9. Thus is that false teaching condemned for ever; they epitomize the truth we know from Jude 11:11; they deny that Christ our Savior is coming for His Bride.
ReplyDeleteThe bankrupt nature of that 'father of lies' teaching is laid bare for all to see.
Never again in this house will they ever again be received as instructed by 2 John 9-11.
In Jesus' Name. Amen.
Chris from rapture forums....you left out another difference
ReplyDelete7) gog-magog Israel is dwelling safely and at rest, Armeggedon Israel and the whole world is ravaged by the tribulation.
they are OBVIOUSLY 2 different battles
Thank you hartdawg, we'll add that one to the list as well. It should be crystal clear now to any HONEST seeker of God's word that these are definitely not the same wars. I mad a quick list here of the differences between the two wars for future reference:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.raptureforums.com/EndTimesEvents/gogmagogvsarmageddon.cfm
I was reading an article by Dr. Thomas Ice earlier, and he said he only knew of one person right now in theology circles who thought they were the same war. Everyone else sees them as two wars.
I guess if you go outside on a clear beautiful day and say the sky is blue, there's always a ding-dong that will argue and say it is brown. LOL
God bless.