Sunday, April 24, 2011

Is America to be Judged Prior to Daniel's 70th Week?



Resurrection Day, 24 April 2011: Since virtually all teachers agree that the United States of America is not specifically mentioned in the literal Word of God, then where, pray tell, is the literal judgment and destruction of the United States of America taught by so many of these same prophecy teachers prophetically foretold in His Word?


The prophetic fact-of-the-matter is that such a unique judgment upon the USA is not foretold in the Word of God.


The obvious lack of a specified Divine judgment upon the United States of America is therefore a man-made judgment; an eisegetically-derived judgment. And as such it is an extremely incongruous form of Divine judgment when so many Arab Muslim nations have been actively at war against the reborn Israel and have facilitated Israel's ever increasing terrorization since her re-birth 63 years ago. The judgments coming upon these nations are clearly foretold in numerous chapters written by the numerous Divinely inspired prophets of God -- Asaph (Psalm 83), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel (Chapters 38/39), just to name a few.


Or how about when applied to the bulk of western nations, particularly of Europe and the Western Hemisphere where modern-day anti-Israel sentiment and its precursor holocaust enabling anti-Semitism were nurtured and have existed for AT LEAST SIX CENTURIES along with abortion-on-demand, homosexual and all manner of other sexual perversions, as well as a civilization-wide turning away from God and the Lord Jesus Christ along with every manifestation of Satanically inspired humanism. All of these sins have been nurtured as inherited by the West as a whole through the absorption of the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and ultimately decadent Roman norms of human civilization.


Yet many teachers tell us that the United States of America is to be uniquely singled out for Divine judgment and destruction prior to Daniel's 70th Week. Is this correct?


No, and on the contrary, I utterly reject such an interpretation notion as this. The last empire mentioned in the Bible is the Roman Empire. Every nation in Europe and the Western Hemisphere is a direct descendent of the Roman Empire and its peoples.


So the fact that the US is not specifically mentioned in the Bible is meaningless in my view. The US is in the Bible, but under a different point of reference. Is nuclear-armed France mentioned in the Bible? How about nuclear-armed United Kingdom? Spain? Portugal? Canada? Brazil? Any of them?

No. Not one is mentioned.

But what is symbolically mentioned are the "iron and clay" ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar's dream statue given to to the prophet Daniel by God in a night vision. Those toes are the representation of the descendent nations of the Roman Empire. Moreover, what is symbolically represented by the prophet Ezekiel are the Western seafaring nations of commerce referred to as Tarshish and "all their young lions" (former colonies).

I do not believe the US is going to be uniquely judged and destroyed. I believe that those Bible eschatologists who've been teaching that the US is doomed to destruction are in error and have completely missed a key prophetic point.

I believe the US will be an integral, if not indispensible, part of the Beast Empire, and NATO will be the overwhelming army of the Beast. Without the incredible military power of the US the military power of NATO is nothing special. No nation on the earth has the military command and control (C2) capabilities, much less the command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, sensors and reconnaissance (C4ISR) capabilities that the US possesses. Zippo, nada, none. We're forward deployed on bases in dozens of countries all over the planet, our residual combat power is peerless, and we're actively fighting wars or low intensity conflicts simultaneously in several places hundreds to thousands of miles distant at this very moment. This is the kind of military power that will manifest itself in the literal fulfillment of this key prophecy during Daniel's 70th Week:

Daniel 11:40-44



"At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon. He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels. But news from the east and the north shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many."


That's a whole lot of conquering. It is conquest on a truly global scale. And it all happens within a very short span of time.

Therefore, I believe the United States of America will be judged when all of the other nations of the beast empire are judged at the appointed time as God Almighty informed the prophet Daniel in a night vision.

The time of the coming judgment of these nations of the beast empire is found in Daniel 2:28a (emphasis added):






"But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days.


The judgment itself is foretold in Daniel 2:31-35






“You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome. This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

... along with the God-given interpretation in Daniel 2, verses 36 through 45:


“This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”


This is the judgment upon the nations at the conclusion of Daniel's 70th Week by none other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.


This prophecy of judgment upon the nations is repeated in even greater detail in The Revelation of Jesus Christ, chapters 18 and 19. The source of this prophecy is the same as that given to Daniel... Almighty God.


Read the words of this prophecy and be blessed as declared in Revelation 1:1-3, and pay heed that no one add to or take away from these words per the explicit warning of Revelation 22:18-19.

30 comments:

mark3210 said...

Sean,
Do you have a feeling for whether or not the Assad regime will survive the current round of protests?
Reading Debka I get the impression his regime is teetering on the brink of collapse.

SeanOsborne said...

mark3210,

I think it is very possible the Alawite al-Assad regime will be replaced with a fundamentalist Sunni regime. This change might have the effect of accelerating the prophetic events we know are coming.

Therefore and in sum, such a potential regime change matters not one iota relative to Bible prophecy. Syria as we have known it is doomed, Damascus' future is assured.

hartdawg said...

HAPPY RESURRECTION DAY!!!
I'm gonna have to think about this one. its always been my belief the the u.n. along with america are the merchants of tarshish and the young lions. the description is too precise of the you u.n and america 2 be anyone else so I agree with you on that. it says during the day of the lord people will be eating drinking and marrying in other words life as usual if america fell that would not happen so I agree with you on that. where I am not sure is the interpretation of the 10 toes I always believe them to be 10 nations in europe or 5 from western roome and 5 from eastern rome but it would make sense for america to be part of the anti christ kingdom I'm gonna have to read up on this. happy resurrection day.

GlennO said...

Sean-

You have lain out your rationale with order and substance! I can not justify doubting you with just a gut feeling and a prickly feeling up the back of my neck. Well done - and Thank you!

GlennO

hartdawg said...

... 1 more thing where did you get that image? I wanna download it for a wallpaper on my phone it's a really cool picture.

Dan said...

Good stuff Sean,
When Ezekiel 38 occurs I believe that Sheba, Dedan, Tarshish & the young lions thereof will stand idly by. Seems with our national pull back in the aftermath of our misadventures in Iraq & Afghanistan that that could come down soon and America (the young lions thereof) will sit on the sideline while God deliveries Israel miraculously!
Maranantha!
Dan Tomlinson, M.D.
Author: Birth Pangs: How Pregnancy Reveals God's Plan for the Ages

Great Grany 5 said...

Sean,
I to agree that the idea of our beloved nation being singled out for total destruction is beyond repulsive. To me, it makes a lie of God's promise to bless those who bless Israel.

Sure we need Divine correction for any form of evil and especially when Yahwah has been so gracious to all the people's that have gathered here on this blessed land. I don't see the destruction as a nation but I do think we will be eliminated from defending Israel during the major outbreak of conflicts that will take the next stage. I don't have a clear picture of the circumstances because I am not a Prophet in regard to Israel but given the current political circumstances, it is doubtful the war drums will be pounded for Israel when the real battles begin. Yahwah will be their only source of help and it is what tHE SON OF GOD is waiting to hear.

God will chasten those he loves but HE also desires the unsaved to come to Him through the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ even at the last hour.

I love the construction of your post and no chills or misrepresented scripture and the really does give me great hope and joy.

Shalom,
Grant

Great Grany 5 said...

Sean,
Grant is a misspelling. Still Grany and I am just now learning to use my iPad. You didn't know you had such a wiz great grand mother on your site. But that should not be a sign of demotion.

Grany

Jay said...

A fascinating take on the US.
It does open up some interesting possibilities.
Let us also though not forget that the US and European nations are under continuing judgment for their sins as evidenced by the growth of atheism, deviant lifestyles, abortion, reductions in freedom of speech, natural disasters, etc. All of these are outgrowths of God removing his hand of favor from these nations that were once so blessed to start the greatest reformations, revivals, preachers and missionaries.

SeanOsborne said...

Thanks GlennO. I have recently just re-edited the above for a few typos and grammar errors, but it basically is unchanged.

I grew up believing the opposite than what I wrote. But then after over three decades of simultaneous eschatological Bible study with military service on and off the battlefield, and knowing what I know about inherent and residual US power projection capabilities, I soon found myself piqued by a quote from the Rev. Billy Graham. He is quoted saying, "If God does not judge America, He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah."

Clearly, God will never apologize for anything He determines.

I'm not saying America will not be judged. It will most certainly be judged, as will all nations. But the judgment of America will not come at the time and in the manner most eschatologists have exegeted. It will come at the time and in the manner already foretold by the Word of God. And that judgment will be both expedited and absolutely facilitated by the taking of the Bride of Christ from this nation in the Harpazo.

As long as the Bride of Christ is living in these United States, there will be no unique judgmental destruction upon this land or its people. Of that I am sure by the Holy Spirit.

SeanOsborne said...

Dr. Dan Tomlinson,

Yes, the Ezekiel prophecy is one of the key elements that caused a 180 degree phase reversal in my thinking about a pre-Tribulation judgment upon this nation.

I am certain there is much more to be discerned from these prophetically related Scriptures.

Clearly the whole of the Arabian Peninsula is aligned with the West during the Gog/Magog attack - which I also believe occurs at least 3.5 years prior to Daniel's 70th Week. It turns into a nuclear conflict with fire and brimstone being delivered upon many nations globally. The whole world will demand and eagerly follow a charismatic statesman who arises promising world peace at that time.

A single verse at Ezekiel 39:29 may well be indicative of the Harpazo and God turning His full attention upon Israel, and then the US is absorbed into the beast empire and gets on the fast track to Divine judgment within the following 7 years with the rest of the nations that Jesus, the rock which breaks the feet of Nebuchadnezzar's image, as He is symbolically represented in the Prophecy.

Also, as seen in the prophetic picture of Daniel 2:36-45
the "fourth kingdom" crushes all of the others (babylonian, Persian and Greek). This is world conquest by the beast empire.

Yes, I believe there is much more to be exegeted from these Scriptures

Joey Bagadonuts said...

Hiya Sean,

How ya doin' buddy? I was thinking about your "Is America to be Judged..." post today and had a thought come to me. What if the USA is not mentioned in Scripture NOT because of a direct punishment by Almighty God, but because we no longer matter on the world scene?

Our economy is in bad shape right now and some "behind the scenes" meddling by the puppet masters could push us over the edge.

Can you envision a scenario where the USA is flat broke? Food riots, civil disorder, no money for the USA pay it's bills? Complete economic disaster. Where we just can't afford another war. Possible?

OK and good measure...add an in to the mix a sizable percent of the population who have a anti-Israel or anti-Middle East war sentiment. I think it's very possible that we could sit this one out. Whhadda ya think?

Anonymous said...

Sean,
Thanks so much for this insight. It is so easy to hear things repeated very often in the church and thru so-called "prophets" that one stops really looking at what the Lord has to say thru his word. Your comments section was even more revealing and encouraging than the original article. I "feel" so depressed when the doomsayers come out in droves lamblasting the USA and I always think, Gee, there are so many Christians here.....is the Lord going to destroy us because we are in the minority and can't really stop this evil globalist agenda? Thanks again for this new insight - Susan

Jay said...

Sean, dunno if you read this blog already but there is an interesting series posted there right now you might find relevant: http://runningfrombabylon.blogspot.com/2011/04/obamas-stormy-week-part-3.html

SeanOsborne said...

HiYa Joey! Life in 'Joisey' is good, a blessing at every turn, and an eternally vigilant watchful eye on those who intend us great harm.

I no longer believe in a Pre-Tribulation (i.e. Pre-Daniel's 70th Week) judgment upon the USA due to all of the points raised in the main article and the others which are in this comments section.

America is being intentionally reduced in economic stature by the Global Oligarchy (Soros et. al.) so as to more easily incorporate the USA into a group of equalized nations within the coming beast empire. The illegal alien issue is an intentional effort by the same to fundamentally alter America's demographic - we're being altered to be less Anglo-Saxon and more Latin by their design. And there's also a huge distinction to be made of those Latin-Americans who are red, white and blue patriots, and those who are not. Same goes for the Anglo's as well.

The big difference is American military power - no nation on earth has more relative and recent warfighting prowess. This also is by Global Oligarchy design. It will be of immense use to them in imposing their will. Libya is currently a prime example. This is where the verses from Daniel 2:36-45 are so relative to what is coming and the post-Harpazo USA's role in those events.

Another thing, our equalization notwithstanding, I see a direct comparison or nexus to the sum of the image Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of and the US as it recently was among the nations of this world:

"This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome."

That's the USA, an awesome world power, virtually peerless among the nations of the world, but now being reduced in a great global ponzi scheme, a global redistribution of our wealth via the mechanism of world socialism.

Yet still the Globalist will not aloow this nation to be destroyed, it is far too valuable in the full scope of their world conquering agenda.

I think we have a chance to take the Republic back in the next election. But after that, the Harpazo cannot occur soon enough Bro! Still, in all of this I believe America's appointment with Divine judgment occurs during Daniel's 70th Week, not before it.
That judgment occurs not too long after the Bride of Christ has been caught up to be forever with the Lord.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Sean

With hand on heart, I can truthfully say I have NEVER accepted these so called 'prophecies' against the U.S. From Billy Graham to David Wilkerson, these are utterances of men merely expounding what they would do if they were God.

Judgment will come; but upon ALL nations during the 70th Week of Daniel. Until then, we are in the age of Grace, and while God reprimands us as individuals and nations, THE judgments remain future.

The U.S. is no worse than any other nation, and none are being dealt with as we deserve, such is God’s Grace and Mercy.

Maranatha!
Sue

SeanOsborne said...

Sue said:

"Judgment will come; but upon ALL nations during the 70th Week of Daniel. Until then, we are in the age of Grace, and while God reprimands us as individuals and nations, THE judgments remain future."

SPOT-ON EXCELLENT POINT SUE !!!

Anonymous said...

Brother Sean,

Interesting article. It looks like I will be the first to take the leap... I don't agree with the U.S. remaining a significant power. Call it 'Judgment' or YHWH's hand being removed from the U.S. to suffer from it's leader's poor/suicidal choices, but the U.S. is going to suffer a very painful death. I am not a prophet, but only a blind, deaf and naive person would miss the train of tribulation (not necessarily biblical)about to collide with this country.

An administration bent on the destruction of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, the U.S. economy, and it's currency, seems just too coincidential in light of our leaders'desire to carve up Y'israel, while moving to cast out all Judeo-Christian values and beliefs.

If we are to take the Bible literally, the Father clearly warns that anyone that seeks to harm Y'israel has the Father to answer too, and that is if we ignore the moral degradation of the country, the fact that we have seen our leaders spend decades now trying to give Y'israel's self-proclaimed enemies the high ground which would allow them to inflict terrible casualities upon Y'israel's populations.

While I agree, this country still exist due in part to the fact that there are more than 50 true believers here, when the rapture happens that won't be the case. And the consequences of our leaders uncontrollable spending habits, U.S. Treasury's printing presses running non-stop for the last 3 years, and a dozen plus more economic suicidal policies will bring this country to an end. If we don't have a currency of any worth, we won't be able to field this massive military might of ours. Obama is also giving away, bit by bit our national soveriegnty. There is a growing insurmountable divide conservatives and progressives, which if things keep going, could result in a full out civil war.

The U.S. as we know will, soon be a thing of the past, and what will occupy this land mass will be far from what our founding fathers envisioned when this country was founded by the grace and blessing of YHWH.

This is my short answer on this. Will YHWH enact some Biblical judgment upon the U.S.A, He won't have too, we are fully capable of destroying ourselves!

Blessings,

Maranatha! Mark

Gramma from Canada said...

Well Mr. Osborne, another great article.

I think that we can all agree that the U.S. at some point in the very near future, being the ‘only’ World Power at this time ‘must’ decline.

The Prophetic Word says that the Last World Power ‘will’ be the Old Revived Roman Empire. This means that somehow, someway the U.S. ‘must’ pass the ‘baton’ over to this new World Order.

One of the reasons, I believe, that the U.S. has been so Blessed as a Nation is because until now, they have always stood with Israel.

I also believe America was used by God to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world, which America has done.

As for the immorality, abortion and the rest of the abominations that goes on, I agree that America is no different than any other country that allows such abominable things BUT America ‘IS’ different as a Country, than any other country at this time in History.

America is the Leader of the Free World, America is the #1 World Power and as I mentioned before, this must change. America has to decrease and the E.U. ‘must’ increase.

As far as ‘judgement falling on America, I believe that things are happening exactly the way God said they would happen. Jesus said that all these things would take place as the time of His Return got closer....The abominations, the wars, the weather, the roaring of the seas, signs in the heavens, wars and rumours of wars....etc....These are all things that Jesus said would happen worldwide and it meant that HIS return was near, not that 'judgement was falling'.

The Word of God says that what happens in the Tribulation Period is that HIS WRATH will be poured out on ALL nations because of how they have treated Israel. For at that time the WHOLE world will be against Israel..

I see what’s happening now as being the way God will allow the fall of America to be the catalyst for the New World Order to be completed. (This could happen before the Rapture of the Church or After, I for one don’t know).

I’m reminded that God has a plan and it is His plan that will unfold. God said that the Last Gentile World Government would be the Revived Roman Empire, not the United States.

However, I too believe that the U.S. will NOT be destroyed as some believe. I think the U.S. will willingly give away its’ Sovereignty and become a 'part' of the New World Order and the U.S. will not be as we know it today.

God I’m sure knew and knows what every leader He allowed or allows to be put into Government would do. They would do exactly what He planned for them to do.

Nothing that happens in the past or in the future happened or will happen without a purpose that God has. I also believe that when a Country Falls like for instance the British Empire....it is because it was God’s timing for it to fall.....

So, to say that America is under judgement now, I would say no, to say that America is about to collapse from within, I would say most likely.

God Bless
Gramma from Canada

SeanOsborne said...

How could it be possible for the Bride of Christ to curse Israel during this age of Grace and thereby bring upon itself the curse of God?

How could the Bride of Christ fail to live according to Deuteronomy 28:2-14 and adopt Deuteronomy 28:15-68 as their way?

These are absolute impossibilities; the Bride of Christ would then be anything but the Bride of Christ; there would be no Harpazo prior to Daniel's 70th Week.

And so I find the need to reitierate:

"I'm not saying America will not be judged. It will most certainly be judged, as will all nations. But the judgment of America will not come at the time and in the manner most eschatologists have exegeted. It will come at the time and in the manner already foretold by the Word of God. And that judgment will be both expedited and absolutely facilitated by the taking of the Bride of Christ from this nation in the Harpazo.

As long as the Bride of Christ is living in these United States, there will be no unique judgmental destruction upon this land or its people. Of that I am sure by the Holy Spirit.
"

Anonymous said...

Gramma, I agree with most of what you said, but the Father is not the force behind all that is going on... this isn't some grand scheme, but rather the consequences of a long series of poor choices by the world's leaders (including the U.S.)and it's people. I say the people, because it the people in most Western countries that 'elect' their leaders. Many people have the misconception that prophecy is a "plan" or "program" when folks don't have a choice but to do to fulfill those prophecies, when in fact the Father merely knows/sees everything that is going on from the beginning of time til the eternal order is established at the end of time(once the eternal order is setup, time will have no purpose).

So what is happening to the U.S. and the rest of the World is not YHWH's "Plan", but rather partly due to the actions of Satan and partly due to fallen men's decisions and actions. Nothing catches YHWH off guard or happens that the Father hasn't known was going to happen before the beginning of time (we are talking 'time' not eternity) itself. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit offer guidance and help (through blessings), but the Father gives us all, free-will to make the choices we wish to make. If the Father 'made' the plans, and folks HAD to follow what ever the Father had planned for them, then what would be the need for Tribulation or even judgment, because how can a perfectly just Elohim judge a being for doing what the Father had programmed them to do?! Wouldn't that make the Father a cruel and unjust being, if He judged those who had been designed by Him, to do exactly what he programmed them to do.

It is true that the Father ordains our governments and leader... even the evil ones, but they are accountable for their actions, and those actions are the governments' free-will to make.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I don't think "Biblical" judgment - brimstone from the sky or the ground opening up and swallowing us or whatever will befall the U.S., but the consequences of ours and our leaders actions will result in the fall of the country.

Blessings and Shalom to all! And I think you are the "Gramma from Canada" that used to comment on Bible Prophecy Today's blog-site when Roger allowed comments to be posted, right?

Maranatha! Mark

SeanOsborne said...

Brother Mark,

I also have to differ where you say, "the Father is not the force behind all that is going on..."

On the contrary, He most certainly is!!!

Since Yom Echad (Day One) God the Father has been and reamins in complete control of all things. Without question He has known the End from the Beginning; He is the Alpha and the Omega.

In my view Gramma from Canada is precisely correct wherein she stated: "I’m reminded that God has a plan and it is His plan that will unfold."

This statement from Gramma is 100% consistent with Ephesians 1:11-12 (emphasis added):

"In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory."

And also Daniel 4 which reveals God the Father's Sovereign control over all things:

Verse 17: "This decision is by the decree of the watchers,
And the sentence by the word of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High rules in the kingdom of men,
Gives it to whomever He will,
And sets over it the lowest of men
."

Verse 25b: "They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses."

Verse 34b and 35:

"For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
And His kingdom is from generation to generation.
All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing;
He does according to His will in the army of heaven
And among the inhabitants of the earth.
No one can restrain His hand
Or say to Him, “What have You done?

Gramma from Canada said...

Hello Mark,

I knew that was you! Glad to see your comments once again.

I must say that I agree with you as well, as you have said it much more adequately than I ever could have.

I'm not a scholar, as your already are well aware of :) and perhaps I don't always say the right words to express what I am trying to say.

I wasn't meaning that we are 'programmed' to do anything. God doesn't work like that, however in past history, when God's Prophetic Word was to be fulfilled He would put upon men's hearts whatever needed to be to make the Prophetic Word come to pass...and He could do this because He 'knows' the hearts of men.

I believe as you that we all have a 'free will' and it 'is' because of our choices that good or bad results are born..and yes consequences of one's choices can bring destruction or Blessings and this includes the Leaders of Countries..However, because God knows ALL hearts of men and we do not, He can and will do whatever it is He does to fulfill his Prophetic Word.

His reasons are 'far' beyond us and who am I to question.

Right now, I shall pray for the Leaders of the U.S. and of my own Country Canada, continue to stand up for the Word of God when at all possible and will continue to pray for the Peace of Israel.

God Bless
Gramma from Canada

Sean,
I love your site!

hartdawg said...

it is my belief, and I could be the wrong, america will not be judged before the tribulation but I do believe america will be the first nation to be judged early on in the tribulation. the fact is america has had more lite than any other nations ann is judged by a higher standard and I do not see america in prophecy.... but again I could be wrong

Gramma from Canada said...

Mark,

I can't speak for Mr. Osborne regarding your Calvinist remark and it is not for me to do, but I can speak for myself. I don't believe that people are 'pre-destined' to go to hell or 'pre-destined' to go to heaven.

I do however believe that God knows what we will do before we even do it.....and He knows this 'because He is God' NOT because he created us already 'pre-destined' for heaven or hell....God did not create some people to send to hell and some to send to heaven.

I don't believe that is what Mr. Osborne is saying at all. I can't even see where you get that from.

Ezekiel was told to Prophecy against Gog....It was Prophecied exactly what this leader will think and how he will act. How can God do this, well, first of all because He is God :)....Secondly because He knows the hearts and minds of men....and ONLY HE can know such things...this is why He is God..

I don't believe that this future leader (Gog) was created destined to be evil but God knew exactly what he would do and think (future of course).. my point is, God knows ALL...and yes as you have said, He even knows who is going to be the last person to get saved before the Rapture takes place and I will say once again, He knows BECAUSE He is God.

I apologize Mr. Osborne for getting a little off track here but I felt I had to write this.

God Bless,
Gramma from Canada

P. Doug said...

Sean, what you're saying makes clear sense. We've heard too many people state that if God doesn't judge America, He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah. The audacity - thinking that God could have such a fault found in Him. Like you said, judgment for the nations is coming, and the judgment is from God, and within the timing of God.

I believe, at the same time, that the U.S. has to begin diminishing. Many of the end times nations who God raises up for judgment in the last days have been constrained by the U.S. Israel, for instance, must eventually concede her security to another - I'm not sure how that happens while the U.S. is there for her to lean on.

As always - great article, well-researched, and you hit the nail on the head!

SeanOsborne said...

Being a good Berean, rightly dividing the word, there is indeed a key distiction to make in this discussion, brothers and sisters.

That distinction is between tribulation (thlipsis) and the wrath (orgē) of God.

Tribulation does not come from God, but from other men. It is essentially the unrighteous persection of believers by non-believers.

Ref. Matthew 24:9 and Matthew 24:21

Wrath is the righteous judgment of God poured out on those who reject Him.

Ref. 1 Thessalonians 1:10

Anonymous said...

Hey Gramma,

Some days I get excited and head off on a tangent, with little more than a nudge! LOL!

I agree with your views concerning pre-destination. In my studies we have seen the very scriptures Sean used by Calvinist/Reformers to support their views of "pre-destination", which essentially say we are meat robots programmed to do exactly what the Father wants done, and we have no choice in the matter, especially when it comes to salvation and damnation, which isn't supported scriptural, unless you take various scriptures out of context and/or allegorically.

I love Sean, and he knows I sometimes get excited about misunderstandings. Usually he smacks me around verbally and we let it go, or agree to disagree.

Back on subject though, if the United States isn't the United States as we know it now - based largely upon the U.S. Constitution and sovereign, and Judeo-Christian values predominate, in my humble opinion it is no longer the U.S.A. Yes, the land mass will be hear, and folks will still live here, but I don't believe we will be a 'superpower' or even a significant military power. I wouldn't be surprised if our military equipment isn't sold off to help pay for our run-away national debt. Many of our service men and women are becoming disillusioned with the Obama Administration a mass exodus from the military is very likely, much like under Clinton and Carter.

Time will tell, of course, but the days of America being a Superpower are all but over, from what I can see.

Blessings and Shalom,

Maranatha! Mark

Gramma from Canada said...

Hello Mark,

I agree that the U.S. will 'not' be a super-power during the Time of Jacob's Trouble. I believe it could possibly be due to the Rapture of the Church happening which will leave perhaps 10, 20 or 30 million less people in the U.S. (just guessing on those numbers of course).

I think that there are probably more Born Again Christians in the U.S. than any other part of the World right now and if this is so then the United States of America has the most to lose.

Let's just say that the Rapture of the Church is the Catalyst for the U.S. to 'fold' in with the E.U. I can see this happening because after the Rapture there will be such 'horrific chaos' and so many people will have been 'Raptured' in the U.S. alone U.S. will be more than happy to join the E.U. if not for protection alone...(that's just a thought I have)

I think that all other things that are happening right now regarding the Economy, Religion (emerging church) are just the preparation for the quick 'merging' of the U.S. to the E.U. (The One World Order) when the Rapture takes place....That would mean the E.U. will have all of the Military Machinery and Nukes that the U.S. is now in possession of. Just something to think about.

I think that things are falling apart at an extremely rapid pace right now, maybe not so much on the actual 'surface' (although I can see it and so can many others which I'm sure you will agree) but defintely underneath. The Frog is boiling only not so slowly anymore..

Well, I guess that's about all my thoughts on this one...

God Willing, we'll post again.:)

God Bless
Gramma from Canada

SeanOsborne said...

An anonymous "Buddy" wrote:

"Brother: I believe you need to reevaluate your perception of the military capacity of the USA, we have become a "paper tiger.""

Well, Brother, I am here to say that you are very seriously mistaken; there is no need to reevaluate anything.

America's enormous military strength is going to become the backbone of the Antichrist's ability to project military power globally AFTER the Harpazo occurs.

You would have everybody believe the currently circulating disinformation that Europe alone will be the military power behind the Antichrist. Have you seen the Europe that is the core of the former Roman Empire lately? Italy, Greece and the rest of those toes of Nebuchadnezzar's statue? Crisis on top of crisis on top of crisis. The glass you are drinking from is more than half empty to believe such a thing.

Without American military power the NATO operation in Libya would have failed. Same goes for the one brewing in Syria. It is you who needs to be a real-world reassessment of what you think you know about military power in the world today and tomorrow.

"China can bring down all of our GPS - and all of our weapon's technology depends on this - within a moment ("Information Warfare" - they have us at an extreme disadvantage)"

Nonsense. China does not have a military spaceplane in orbit at this moment as we do. Ever heard of the currently orbiting X-37B? I suggest you Goggle it and recent news about this state-of-the-art American-made capability in space to understand fully who it is who holds the militarily imperative "high ground" in space above the earth. It ain't China, and that's a fact.

"our troops are "battle weary..."

Speak for yourself. It is you who is weary, our troops have been pressed hard, but are as resilient as those who fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam and the not so "Cold War" of forty-some odd years duration. You misjudge America's strength because you misjudge the America's fighting men and women, our peerless, all-volunteer citizen soldiers. Shame on you, wake up!

That's all I have to say on the issues you raised. The Wrath of God is reserved for the 70th Week, after the Bride of Christ is taken in the Harpazo - and it is upon all nations.