06 January 2016: This is likely the most important ten-minute instructional video ever presented on Eschatology Today. And a big Thank You to KenB who brought this to my attention earlier today!
If you have been following the informal comments section of SITREP E10-15 where the subject of when Groom arrives for His Bride at the Harpazo has been discussed in detail over the past few days, then you will find what Messianic Rabbi Daniel Thomson has to say about that coming monumental moment in time to be exceptionally fulfilling.
This entire video is an absolute blessing, but I would ask all to pay extra close attention beginning at about the 6-minute mark. That's where the teaching begins which makes the 8-minute mark so significant and is spot-on with the tremendous significance of Genesis 7:4 as the leading edge prophetic template for the Harpazo and what will happen at that time.
Post Script 27 January 2016: Normally I put updates to the top of a given SITREP, but not this time. This update is a Post Scriptum, a PS.
What has been presented to me in unrelenting fashion by the Holy Spirit over the past three weeks is an increasing burden about Noah's instruction from God in Genesis 7:4 "For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights..." Noah was informed by God in advance (7 days) of the coming judgment. In the Jewish betrothal, as seen in both of the italicized underlined words above... the virgin bride did have foreknowledge of the imminent arrival of the torch-lit procession of her bridegroom.
Underpinning this is the knowledge that Noah and the Ark/Flood were an illustrative type foreshadowing of the Rapture; just as the historical figure Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the Macedonian-Greek Seleucid Empire was an illustrative foreshadowing of the coming Antichrist... and just as the Jewish betrothal custom was an illustrative type foreshadowing of the coming Harpazo.
Jesus says we, His bride indwelt by the Holy Spirit, are to watch, to be prepared at all times for His coming at the Harpazo. What are we watching for but signs of His coming for us!
In Matthew 24:36-39 Jesus teaches, "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Indeed!
For many years, decades worth of years, I blindly accepted what I had been taught by a host of Bible teachers, just as we have all been taught for many decades by a great many teachers, as virtual doctrine if you will allow, that the Harpazo will be a "secret" Harpazo; that it will be a signless, unheralded event.
That was then.
Within the past month all of this former teaching has been re-instructed by the Holy Spirit through multiple Scriptures. I now firmly believe that many of us have received and accepted a fairly significant interpretive inaccuracy regarding the Harpazo, in that what we've been taught is purely an interpretation that came from well-meaning men. At this time the Holy Spirit has been instructing via whole cloth Scripture to teach the truth of the matter.
Why now? Perhaps it is because the time is right for an instructional correction regarding the Harpazo.
I now firmly believe that just as the ancient Hebrews we're led out of Egypt, across and down the length of Sinai by an unmistakable visible sign, the Amud Anan (Pillar of Cloud), the bride of Christ will also receive very visible signs of the coming of the Lord for the Harpazo. I am absolutely certain that in our obedience to the Lord's command to watch we literally have to look up into the sky, day or night, to see what it is that will be a sign for us for this blessed event.
This is where this dutiful Spirit-led Berean dove in and searched Scripture. Accordingly, I think it will be exactly as Jesus said in Luke 21:25, we will receive extraordinary, and very likely naked-eye visual indications in the sun, in the moon and in (a certain constellation of) the stars." These specific and highly probably unprecedented signs are to occur in conjunction with a time of synochē and aporia (Greek, meaning: acute distress and confusion) among the gentile nations. This visual signs activity is also in conjunction with turmoil in the regions of the Mediterranean and Red Seas. Seen a newspaper or a media report recently about this kind of problem in Europe coming from the Middle East? I have, and I know you have as well, especially if you have read this blog for more than the past month or so.
When it comes to an unprecedented sign in the
sun I have noticed that there have recently occurred great black voids, massive coronal holes,
in the sun's surface. These voids are many thousands of times the size of
the earth. They cannot be missed via our current technological means of observation of the helios. If you are not awed immediately, please have a doctor check your body for a pulse. The most recent of these holes to appear was just last October. It was one-quarter of
the sun's visible surface. Yes, Lord, you have my attention!
So, now I look for something to occur with the moon and one or more of the twelve constellations. I happen to think or have the impression that Orion may be worth watching. At the present and for near foreseeable future the flood across the Mediterranean Sea of people from the Middle East certainly is causing distress and confusion, which will likely increase as time progresses into this year.
Post Script 27 January 2016: Normally I put updates to the top of a given SITREP, but not this time. This update is a Post Scriptum, a PS.
What has been presented to me in unrelenting fashion by the Holy Spirit over the past three weeks is an increasing burden about Noah's instruction from God in Genesis 7:4 "For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights..." Noah was informed by God in advance (7 days) of the coming judgment. In the Jewish betrothal, as seen in both of the italicized underlined words above... the virgin bride did have foreknowledge of the imminent arrival of the torch-lit procession of her bridegroom.
Underpinning this is the knowledge that Noah and the Ark/Flood were an illustrative type foreshadowing of the Rapture; just as the historical figure Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the Macedonian-Greek Seleucid Empire was an illustrative foreshadowing of the coming Antichrist... and just as the Jewish betrothal custom was an illustrative type foreshadowing of the coming Harpazo.
In Jesus' ten virgins
parable the five virgins (lamps lit with oil) went out to meet the
arriving procession of the bridegroom. In Matthew 25:6 the virgins are
alerted to the fact that the bridegroom's procession was coming - it had not arrived yet, but it was coming
- as in enroute to where the bride was. This teaching is echoed by Messianic Rabbi Daniel Thomson in the video above.
Jesus says we, His bride indwelt by the Holy Spirit, are to watch, to be prepared at all times for His coming at the Harpazo. What are we watching for but signs of His coming for us!
In Matthew 24:36-39 Jesus teaches, "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Indeed!
This
statement is specific to the Harpazo. In the days before the flood
(judgment) life was going on as usual in the world, right up until Noah
entered the ark - but Noah had 7 days advance notice according to Genesis 7:4! It was the doomed who were totally ignorant!
Again, we, the bride of Christ
are commanded in multiple ways and multiple times by our Lord and Savior to watch
for His coming. Are we commanded by Him to watch for an event which occurs in a microsecond? NO! We
cannot possibly see that. What we the indwelt temples of the Holy Spirit are
exhorted to do is to watch closely for His coming prior to that instant in time!!!
Then we come to Jesus teaching of Matthew 24:43: "But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into."
Then we come to Jesus teaching of Matthew 24:43: "But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into."
In
His very next breath Jesus teaches the parable about the faithful and
wise servant and evil servants. Who is it that is completely caught
unaware of the day and hours of the master's coming? The evil sinner
servant.
But the faithful and wise servant was not caught unaware was he.
But the faithful and wise servant was not caught unaware was he.
These
parables are instructions to the bride of Christ emphasizing that we
are to watch for our Groom's coming for the Harpazo. We already know
that we're in the season, but we're not looking for the day or hour...
we're supposed to be looking for the sign of His coming... the
procession of the Bridegroom.
I have been
burdened and do believe though this study that the bride will receive
immediate for knowledge of His coming, and we will be ready, out to meet
Him, our lamps lit and full of oil.For many years, decades worth of years, I blindly accepted what I had been taught by a host of Bible teachers, just as we have all been taught for many decades by a great many teachers, as virtual doctrine if you will allow, that the Harpazo will be a "secret" Harpazo; that it will be a signless, unheralded event.
That was then.
Within the past month all of this former teaching has been re-instructed by the Holy Spirit through multiple Scriptures. I now firmly believe that many of us have received and accepted a fairly significant interpretive inaccuracy regarding the Harpazo, in that what we've been taught is purely an interpretation that came from well-meaning men. At this time the Holy Spirit has been instructing via whole cloth Scripture to teach the truth of the matter.
Why now? Perhaps it is because the time is right for an instructional correction regarding the Harpazo.
I now firmly believe that just as the ancient Hebrews we're led out of Egypt, across and down the length of Sinai by an unmistakable visible sign, the Amud Anan (Pillar of Cloud), the bride of Christ will also receive very visible signs of the coming of the Lord for the Harpazo. I am absolutely certain that in our obedience to the Lord's command to watch we literally have to look up into the sky, day or night, to see what it is that will be a sign for us for this blessed event.
This is where this dutiful Spirit-led Berean dove in and searched Scripture. Accordingly, I think it will be exactly as Jesus said in Luke 21:25, we will receive extraordinary, and very likely naked-eye visual indications in the sun, in the moon and in (a certain constellation of) the stars." These specific and highly probably unprecedented signs are to occur in conjunction with a time of synochē and aporia (Greek, meaning: acute distress and confusion) among the gentile nations. This visual signs activity is also in conjunction with turmoil in the regions of the Mediterranean and Red Seas. Seen a newspaper or a media report recently about this kind of problem in Europe coming from the Middle East? I have, and I know you have as well, especially if you have read this blog for more than the past month or so.
 |
| A coronal hole in the sun this large has got to get your attention, right? |
So, now I look for something to occur with the moon and one or more of the twelve constellations. I happen to think or have the impression that Orion may be worth watching. At the present and for near foreseeable future the flood across the Mediterranean Sea of people from the Middle East certainly is causing distress and confusion, which will likely increase as time progresses into this year.
Marana'tha!
Hi Sean,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the video by Mr. Thomson. I can almost see the glorious procession when He was describing it.
It reminded me of the jewish tradition of the father hiring musicians to go out heralding in the birth of a first born male child from the womb.
In Joseph and Mary's case with the birth of Jesus, His Abba provided a multitude of heavenly host to proclaim His Son arrival into this world.
Our God is truly,truly glorious!
Jeff M.
KenB.....
ReplyDeleteThanks for bringing this to us. I have already passed it on to my friends and family.
Wow Sean thanks!
ReplyDeleteI never knew there was connection to drinking the wine during communion and
the Jewish marriage ceremony which then correlates to you and I being married
to our Lord, Jesus Christ! It is truly a wise thing to listen to Messianic
Jewish rabbis that are alive in Christ. I'll be sending this one to family
and friends. Thank you.
Did anybody else notice the correlation to the address of the verse Genesis 7:4
ReplyDeleteand the information of the verse? Chapter 7 - 7 days until, verse 4 - 40 days and 40 nights of rain. I think God is telling us this passage is very important!
Thanks for posting this Sean! Loved the rabbi's teaching. We as the church need to get back to our Jewish roots. I think we miss out on the richness and fullness of our faith when we don'T delve into the deeper things that come from our Jewish foundation. How can we understand the new testament if we don't know the old?
ReplyDeleteIt's something we need to cultivate. But thanks again Sean. I don't comment often, but I do check in many times a week.
Blessings!
Excellent reminder about taking Communion seriously!
ReplyDelete"Excellent reminder about taking Communion seriously!"
ReplyDeleteAlthough the elderly gentleman in the video is a Messianic Rabbi, I hope my brothers and sisters don't think that the Lord is going to take their lives in case they take Communion somehow unpreparedly.(Also, I think a simple and heartfelt prayer of asking the Lord's forgiveness for our sins -including the ones we weren't aware of- before taking Communion is enough.)
I've been super-duper busy of late, so let me reiterate that this video came here thanks to KenB, he's the one who found it and sent the URL in via a comment.
ReplyDeleteImmediately upon playing the video I realized the importance of the teachings and had no doubts about the need to post it as a SITREP in its own right - which I did even before it had fully completed playing on my #1 monitor.
The Groom's procession coming the entire distance from the Father's house to the bride's dwelling, even though such processions mostly occurred at night due to the local nature of their occurrences in Israel... this had me thinking
At the one-time, pre-70th Week imminent Harpazo that will soon occur on this earth, half of the planet will be sunlit and the other dark at any given moment.
So, might we envision that over the period of prior, seven literal 24-hour days to the blessed event what seeing such a glorious procession would provide the to bride all over planet earth... even if in the strictest Spiritual sense?
I get chills just thinking about it!
Kevneto, I agree 100%! The Bride of Christ, upon baptism and full indwelling by the Holy Spirit, has long been in the unique position of understanding all of the Spiritual things Israel (for the most part) has not had available to them (this gets to why Jesus had to speak to the Jews, even to His apostles, in parables).
On the Day of Pentecost and ever since then the Bride should know well these important things.
I find Rabbi Daniel Thomson's message to be spot-on and extremely timely.
I'm pretty sure my own Dad knew seven days prior to his death. He told his Church elder friends the Sunday prior that he felt like he was going to the hospital and not coming back out. His neighbor saw him sitting on the front porch the next Wednesday and asked him what he was doing to which he replied "just waiting" with a smile. That Sunday he was taken to the hospital. While mom and I were with him in the ER, he tried to get out of the bed. We asked him what he was trying to do. He looked at us with tears in his eyes and said "I just want to go home". I'm convinced that he wasn't talking about his house. I'm convinced the Lord ministered to him seven days prior to his passing. He never told anyone but the small comments he made during this week and a better understanding of Genesis 7 has me thinking, as well, that we will be forewarned.
ReplyDeleteJust as Noah knew at least one-hundred years years before the fact that the flood was coming and why it was coming because God told him directly, so too the bride of Christ has known for almost 2,000 years that Jesus would be coming for her because He has told her so directly.
ReplyDeleteJust as Noah was told directly by God that the flood would occur seven days hence, so too do I believe the bride will also come to be Spiritually aware of the Groom's inbound procession.
My thoughts are that "of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only" refers directly to the day/hour when God will send the Son for His bride, because once that command is given no power can stop it.
Given the speed at which the raising of the dead and the transformation of the living occurs, well, obviously to me at least, these things will almost certainly occur faster than the speed of light.
I paraphrase Matt 24:48 - "but what if the Servant is Evil (unsaved), the master will return unannounced"
ReplyDeleteTo me this is another confirmation that the good servants will be aware of their Master's return while those ignorant of his return (or Him) will be taken by surprise.
In the parable of the 10 bridesmaids - Matt 25:6 seems to indicate a forewarning as well. The 10 bridesmaids are made aware of the grooms approach. The 5 foolish bridesmaids know the groom is coming, and they go to a shop to buy oil for their lamps....the groom comes while they are gone however. If there wasn't a forewarning, the 5 foolish bridesmaids would have no time to try to get oil....yes??
Lance
Lance,
ReplyDeleteYes, my Berean brother. exactly! I've been waiting for someone to bring this up.
There are two types here, which were noted in the E10-15 comments section, they being the faithful and wise servant (pistos kai phronimos doulos) and the evil servant (kakos doulos."
The faithful has wisdom, which I believe refers to the wisdom of foreknowledge given by the Holy Spirit; the evil servant is not with the Spirit, and is therefore caught unawares because he/she is living a worldly life thinking the Lord tarries; he/she is cut asunder upon the Groom's arrival.
In the other parable, half of the bridesmaids definitely have foreknowledge because they and took their lamps (full of oil/being full of the Holy Spirit) and went out to meet the procession of the Groom when the announcement of His arrival made.
Notice once again there a five who are wise (phronimos) with oil (Holy Spirit), as opposed to the five who are foolish (mōros) who are without oil (Holy Spirit).
This also is a primary indicator that the time is pre-70th Week because the Restrainer/Holy Spirit is very clearly present.
Hey sean, please don't take this the wrong way, but now I'm really glad that I asked that question on the previous sit-rep. I was really afraid to ask it at first because it seemed like a mocking, or at least doubting question. I'm glad for the discussion it led to. Praise God! I'm also relieved to find that others had similar questions.
DeleteBelow are just a few scriptures from Revelation 3, there are more. Our Saviour and God emphasizes to the 7 churches "he who has an ear let him hear", and also "he who overcomes", which tells me exactly what was said concerning the bridesmaids and servants mentioned above. The trials in our lives reveal to ourselves if we trust in God. If we fall we repent, if we overcome we give the glory to God. Our reward for believing without seeing yet trusting Him will reap a great reward in heaven. Jesus took the time to speak to the Apostle John in Revelation and give us instruction to help us endure to the end. Our ability to endure is not by might or power but by the Holy Spirit.
DeleteRevelation 3
4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
One other quick note I would bring up that occurred to me concerning the Holy Spirit/restrainer. Jesus is the one who breaks the first seal which allows the rider on the white horse to go forth. Just another proof who the restainer is.
I pray it's soon. :)
Sean,
ReplyDeleteI may be off base, but I feel like you are hinting at something else in your comments today. The comments I'm referring too have to do with the literal 7 day foreknowledge & viewing the procession during that time....when the world will be covered half in darkness & half in sunlight (None of which I've considered & to do so is mind blowing)....and the final piece, that it will occur faster than the speed of light. I know the twinkling of an eye is time span so small that it is almost without measure. Are you alluding to something, or am I off base?
Lance
Lance,
ReplyDeleteIn no way are you off base. In fact you're locked center mass on the target I'm looking at. As some have noted in their comments - there is more here to learn, much more. So, yes, I am definitely alluding to the something more which is staring us in the face through the plain text; there is a deeper meaning.
For example, as I alluded to, in the literal less than 1 second fixed position in time (literally in the Greek en rhipe ophthalmos) during which the dead in Christ are raised in their new incorruptible, eternal bodies and we the living are transformed into the same type of bodies -- all of that occurs around the earth, half of which is sunlit, and the other half is not illuminated by the sun.
In fact, the first Greek phrase that Paul used to describe this is in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is en atomos, which is itself composed of two words alfa and tomos or a-tomos which carries the meaning of an indivisible atom of time... is without question a description of something which occurs faster than the speed of light.
Literally, as you stated, it is too fast to measure in time.
This is something so fast that Paul barely had the vocabulary with which to describe what the Holy Spirit had informed him of regarding the Harpazo. So Paul used three Greek phrases, back-to-back, one following the other, to try to convey the literal meaning. Those phrases are the aforementioned two, plus en eschatos salpigx, literally, 'in the last of a temporal succession of trumpet reverberations.'
All in all, that, to me is descriptive of the very instant end of a loud procession which is seen (torches of light) and heard (massive trumpet-like sounds) coming, and then upon arrival in a moment faster than the speed of light ... phhhhhhht!!!! ... gone.
Millions of people are raised from the dead in new incorruptible bodies and millions more are just as quickly changed into incorruptible bodies and are gone from the earth.
So... next questions:
1) Where are the souls of the dead in Christ right now, at this instant?
2) Who are the members of the Grooms procession from His Father's house to our house?
I believe the souls of the dead are completely alive and completely conscious. Consider the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31). We can trust this testimony above all others because Jesus Himself told this story. Jesus called Lazarus "the man" in verse 22 when the angels were carrying him to Abraham's side. His body was dead but , the man (his essence) was alive. The rich man, like wise, had his body buried, but appears to have been instantly, consciously, in Hades being tormented.
ReplyDeleteWhenever Jesus raised someone from the dead, note that he spoke to them as if they were fully conscious. In Luke 7:14, Jesus said "Young man, I say to you, get up". He called the boy's soul back to his body. In Luke 8:54, Jesus said "My child, get up!" He called the girl's soul back to her body. In John 11:43, Jesus said, "Lazarus, come out!" He called Lazarus' soul back to his body! Note the parallels in John 11:43 and the story in Luke 16! I believe the Lazarus of John and the Lazarus of Luke are the same man!
To add even more, think of the criminal on the cross beside Jesus at the crucifixion. Luke 23:43 says "Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, TODAY you will be with me in paradise." Today, NIV, is Semeron (say-mer-on) in the Lexicon. Semeron is literally translated to "this very day". Jesus didn't say, "after an indefinite sleep". Jesus said "THIS DAY" as in the very year, month, day, hour, and second that the man's soul left his physical body.
There is so much more that speaks to where the souls of the departed go after death. Jesus' own words to the Father on the cross is one example. The martyrdom of Stephen is another example. Check out what the Apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4! He heard things that were unspeakable, inexpressible, ARRETOS. Arretos literally means "not to be uttered and secret. I believe the dead who have been risen were all saints. We have no indication that anyone who was ever raised from the dead came out of Hades. Paul says he was unauthorized to speak what he saw in Paradise. Neither do we have record of anyone else speaking what the saw in Paradise. It is just beautiful.
To answer question number one, finally, the souls of the dead in Christ, right now, are in Paradise, Paul's third heaven. They are fully conscious, fully aware, thriving as the thief on the cross was told, "with me (Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior)! Maranatha!!!
A little more information is required here to answer my questions (both #1 and #2) completely.
ReplyDeleteThe "dead in Christ" (literally: those who are asleep) is a phrase Paul used in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 that is specific to those who have died and are born again in Christ.
And the following verse 14 tells us point blank: "For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep."
At the Harpazo, these souls of all the "dead in Christ" will come with Christ from Heaven (Paradise and Heaven are the same place) by the power of God; therefore they are with Him at this very moment in Heaven.
For them the Harpazo is when they will receive their immortal bodies.
So, these millions of our deceased brethren in Christ are without question individuals within the procession coming with Christ from His Fathers house in Heaven to ours (the earth) for the Harpazo.
I find this picture to be markedly different from the cartoonish imagery of disembodied spirits rising from the earth at the Harpazo. I see the image told to the apostles by the two angles at the ascension of Christ into Heaven, that He returns in the same manner as when He ascended.
And the shout of the voice of the archangel... well there is only one archangel and his name is Michael, and Michael is Israel protector. The shout of the archangel Michael is to announce to Israel that the time of their redemption has arrived. This is precisely in accordance with the prophecy given to Daniel by the angel Gabriel, which by now we have all read and understood per Daniel 12:1.
The sounding of the trump is directly associated with the 7-day long Feast of Tabernacles, (a/k/a the 7-day Festival of Sukkot, the final feast of the year given to Israel which comes right after Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement) and completes the narrative which Paul gives us in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58.
Sean,
ReplyDelete1 Thess 4:13-17 indeed has the answers to the questions you posed. As you stated, verse 14 has the clear answer to both questions I believe. I was wondering how to be sure it pointed to the harpazo versus the second coming, and verse 15-17 answers that definitively I believe. Verse 15 described that we who are alive will NOT meet the Lord ahead of those who have died in Christ. Verses 16-17 describe that dead in Christ rise first, and then we who are alive will be caught up....we know this refers to the Harpazo. Verse 18 is being accomplished by this very blog & its readers.
Hartdawg...thanks for your question. I, too, have not asked questions at times for various reasons, but I will commit to ask more as I love the discussions that come from them. It helps so much to "work out our faith" as we're commanded, and it helps to refocus during these trying times.
Obviously, thanks also to you Sean for holding the forum and encouraging us to dig!
ReplyDeleteLance
Indeed we have to thank Hartdawg for asking the question in the first place which lit off this entire discussion and the Berean study that ensued. The Spirit in each of us working as one in the Lord.
ReplyDeleteBut we're not done... there's still more... we need to address the three verses of Matthew 24:29-31 next.
I will start by saying that the word tribulation (thlipsis) in verse 29 is the key and its meaning is associated with the pressure (the literal meaning of this ancient Greek word) or affliction of the ongoing, ever increasing severity and frequency of the 'birth pangs' (wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilences and the signs Jesus gave) than it is with the Thlipsis and Megas Thlipsis of the 70th Week itself.
What say you?
Sean,
ReplyDeletePlease forgive me if I misunderstand this. I agree that "Thlipsis" indeed means pressure or affliction literally. Eutheos (immediately, at once) after the thlipsis (pressure) the helios (sun, sunlight) shall skotizo (I darken, be darkened) and the selene (moon) shall not give her pheggos (light, splendor, brightness, radiance), and the stars shall pipto (I fall, fall under (as under condemnation), fall prostrate) from ouranos (the visible heavens: the atmosphere, the sky, the starry heavens), and the dynameis ((a) physical power, force, might, ability, efficacy, energy, meaning (b) plur: powerful deeds, deeds showing (physical) power, marvelous works) shall be saleuo (I shake, excite, disturb in mind, stir up, drive away.)
Quick note: Jesus Himself is the one causing the sun and moon to darken based on the definitions. Jesus is the one who makes the stars to fall prostrate before Him.
I can't see how verse 29 points to anything other than the second coming of Christ at the end of Jacob's Trouble. The verse literally says the Jesus will remove the heavenly bodies from the sky. I think verse 30 is Jesus taking the megas thlipsis saints into the New Jerusalem that John saw coming from God out of ouranos (the visible sky). There would have to be heavenly lights in the Megas Thlipsis. In my mind, verses 29 and 30 have to happen at the end of the great trib.
Please correct me if I am in error.
I understand verse 29 referring back to verse 21. Since most of this discussion has me seeking the Lord for the truth of the matter I would also like to say I appreciate the earnestness of others to ask questions. That's a blessing
DeleteThanks Sean and all.
Wills Kitchen,
ReplyDeleteIf your interpretation is correct, then how would you reconcile it to the issue that immediately rises, specifically:
At Jesus' Second Coming which occurs at the end of the 70th Week (Megas Thlipsis) "His elect" returns with Him, also on white horses clothed in fine linen, and will reign on the Earth with Him for a thousand years?
I may be just confusing everyone. I've always been better at hashing things out in my mind rather than writing them down.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you have said. Where I am struggling myself currently is thinking literally about the sun and moon being darkened and the stars being thrown down at the end of the great trib but before the millenium. No light source. The world will still turn for a thousand years before the new Heaven and the New Earth. Ecology is reset during the millennial reign. I think there will be day, night, and seasonal cycles and the people who survive the great tribulation will work, eat, grow crops, sleep, and bear children. This requires light.
I fear I may have inadvertently accepted a false teaching. Is the New Jerusalem that John saw coming out of Heaven the light source for the millennial world? Does the Bride of Christ reside there? I fear I'm wrong. Revelation 21:23-24 lead me to think I've been taught incorrectly. If New Jerusalem is in the sky as the light source for the millennial world, how can the nations bring their honor and glory into it? Its in the sky so they couldn't.
jmoll106,
ReplyDeleteHere's to continuing the blessing of Berean study!
Wills Kitchen;
I'll respond to your questions very shortly. but I have another task to complete before I do so. Back in a flash...
from my Bible's commentary section-
ReplyDeleteRevelation 21:9,10 the wife of the Lamb. The New Jerusalem takes on the character of its inhabitants.
Revelation 21:23
And the city has no need of the sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
Wills Kitchen,
ReplyDeleteSorry for the delay... more to do than I thought.
The plain text prophecy of Joel 2:31 says (emphasis added):
“The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.”
This prophetic statement is repeated verbatim in Acts 2:20.
And finally, it is stated again in Revelation 6:12, where Jesus has opened the Sixth Seal.
Make no mistake here, this is exactly the same event that Jesus was speaking about in His Olivet Discourse that is referenced above (Matthew 24:29-31).
In Joel's prophecy we can see clearly that this unique sun dark, moon red event occurs just once, and that occasion is prior to - before - the awesome day of the Lord comes. Acts repeats it.
Another thing. Of the three verses I cited (Matthew 24:29-31, verse 30 the Lord imparted us with some very important information. Emphasis added.
"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
This cannot be at the end of the 70th Week because those days of the final 42 months will have been shortened, and were they not shortened all life (flesh) on earth would have become extinct - no life (flesh) would have been saved - at the end of the 70th Week. Jesus just got done saying this in Matthew 24:21-21.
We have discussed this subject previously on the blog before, 10 months ago almost to the day to be precise. I'm wondering, how many actually remember that discussion?
So, tell me something brothers and sisters... would something such as this be a sign... or not? I think so. There is indeed much to study here, real meat, and to witness about to those who remain not yet redeemed in Christ.
Also, before i forget and get completely sidetracked... New Jerusalem (the image at the top of the blog main page, literally heaven on earth, and the human mind can barely conceive of it) does not appear until after the Millennium has been completed and Satan's final rebellion has been crushed and the Great White Throne judgment has occurred. After this all things are made new again, a new heaven and a new earth and New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven.
Hey, I been really really busy this week. I'm hoping that this weekend I can look at this discussion and participate. Until then, keep looking up.
ReplyDeleteSean,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the correction! It makes more sense to me now. I eagerly await the next SITREP!
Wills Kitchen,
ReplyDeleteThat's great, and I think we all learn something from this kind of dynamic interactive dialog. There is nothing more rewarding than diving into His Word.
Sean
ReplyDeleteI have always thought Matt 24:30 was a reference to Jesus second coming. Are you saying this is a reference to the procession of the bridegroom?
Also found it interesting that Joel 2:16 specifically mentions letting the bridegroom go out from his chamber and the bride from her dressing room...very interesting!
Lance
Lance,
ReplyDeleteI'm saying that based upon the thrice repeated Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20 and Revelation 6:12 prophesies of the 'sun dark-moon red' sign being prior to the "great and terrible day of the Lord", what Jesus is saying in verses 29-31 in the midst of the Olivet Discourse is the exact same prophecy, and that its timing of this very specific one-of sign is clearly "Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
The verses of Joel 2:15-16 are a direct reference to the Harpazo of the bride of Christ, as well as "young children and nursing babies" who will also be taken up. The entirety of Joel 2 is huge in its prophetic content!
Notice the direct reference to Ezekiel 38/39 in Joel 2:20.
Notice also the direct parallel between Joel 2:30-31 and Revelation 6:12-17.
The Word of God interprets the Word of God.
Sean,
ReplyDeleteI think I looked at the word "before" as meaning "in the presence" of rather than indicating the sequence of the event. The Sun will not give light and the moon turns blood red "in the presence of" the day of the Lord.
Joel 2:21-27 then describes how good things will be....obviously not 70th week time frame. Joel 2:22 "the fig tree (Israel) and the vine (those of us grafted in through Christ) will yield their strength...again this doesn't occur in the 70th week as persecution will be order of the day. 2:24, "the threshing floors will be full of wheat, and the vats will overflow with new wine and oil"....our world today, the harvest is great, but the workers few. Am I off on any of the above?
Verses 2:28-30 list the signs that occur prior to 2:31. Seems like those signs are occurring now. Do you think this event "sun to dark & moon to blood" will be the indicator of the harpazo?
Do you think Joel 2:19 refers to the Lord removing the spiritual blindness of his people since it is placed so close the the Ez 38/39 reference in 2:20? The 38/39 battle is what turns His people back to him correct?
On a personal note, I have been in the habit of asking the Lord for a one word theme for my year for the last several years, and the word I received this year is revelation. I am focusing/asking on having more revelation of His word this year. 13 days in, the Lord has been faithful to that request already.
Lance
The first 42 months are actually downright benign compared to the second 42 months when Satan, Abaddon/Apollyon, the Antichrist and the False Prophet are wreaking havoc all over the earth. In this understanding I can see what Joel is saying.
ReplyDeleteNo great harm comes to Israel in the Ezekiel 38/39 battle, and all of the wealth Israel has before this she will have afterwards, until the Abomination of Desolation when it all cuts loose.
Let the Holy Spirit convict us, one and all, of the meaning of these prophesies.
Sean,
ReplyDeleteI have myself tied into an eschatological pretzel. After trading Joel 2 again, I can see that verses 21-28 are referring to Israel in the first 42 months. Where I have confused myself is in verses 29-31. If we're in the first 42 months, then does this sign occur at the beginning of the Megas Thlipsis? I feel like you're trying to get at more, and I'm missing it. I feel like the sun/moon event is tied to the harpazo, so the sun/moon event would have to be pre 70th week. Can you point me in the right direction....this is why small children shouldn't handle power tools.
Rereading your comments I picked up on something I missed earlier. The thrice mentioned prophecies of Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Rev 6:12 deal with the coming "great and TERRIBLE day of the Lord" while the Olivet discourse you quote as "before the coming great and AWESOME day of the Lord". Anything there?
Lance
Lance M,
ReplyDelete“Where I have confused myself is in verses (Joel 2) 29-31. If we're in the first 42 months, then does this sign occur at the beginning of the Megas Thlipsis?”
I think the answer to your question is YES. At the time when the Lord opens the sixth seal, the darkened sun+blood moon sign occurs. It is already the 6th seal, which means that we’re already in the first half of the 7 years “tribulation period”, prior to (or on the cusp of) the second half of it a.k.a. the Great Tribulation or Megas Thlipsis. At the time of the 6th seal the Church has been long gone in the Rapture. The Rapture happens before the Lord opens the first seal which causes the Antichrist to appear. At least I believe that the AC is the rider of the white horse. The AC could only appear when the Church (sealed with the Restrainer, the Holy Spirit) is out of the way, already gone.
(Sorry for my English!)
In Revelation 4 The Apostle John is caught up to heaven after He writes to the 7 churches. A type of harpazo. Then the elders who are wearing white robes and crowns are representing the church.
DeleteRev 5:8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Revelation 5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
I sincerely believe this is the bride.
I will say I am not sure why there are 24 elders.
Nora
DeleteThanks for the reply! My thought is that this whole comment thread started on the precept of a forewarning of the bridegroom's return. I am convinced that we who are looking for his return will have some foreknowledge provided by the Holy Spirit. Sean went on the mention the speed with which the transformation will take place, the whole world being half in darkness/half sunlit, and we got on the sun going dim/moon blood red. From there I felt like Sean was pointing to more, but I may be off base. I began to think that maybe he was saying the sun dark/moon red sign would be a sign just prior to the harpazo, or maybe even part of the procession. Traditionally, the bridegroom comes at night, not always, but traditionally.....or does he come when there is absence of light? If the Sun were to go dark, it would make quite a back drop for the bridegroom's procession. But, as you said (and I agree), the reference in Joel of this event seems to come right before the Megas Thlipsis... Which would not fit. So I looked for other occurrences of sun dark/moon red phenomenon. Luke 23:44 andMatt 27:45 both mention the sun going dim/dark after Jesus' death....no mention of the moon however. I may be way off base here, but that was my train of thought. Also, as I understand it there are multiple "Day of Lord"s. Some have occurred as part of Israel's judgement in the Old Testament and some are yet to occur, so that can be confusing as well.
Thanks again,
Lance
J moll
DeleteThere are 24 elders because in the old testament there were 24 divisions of the priesthood.
Each division had one head and the 24 heads represent of the entire priesthood
Thanks hartdawg.
DeleteJust finished reading 1 Chronicles 24. I can see the correlation. I've read it before but wasn't sure I could have said it with 100% conviction. I think I'm now at 99%. :) Thanks again.
DeleteSolid food everyone! I am one of those who believes that the closer we get to a fulfillment of Scripture the more we recognize its details which previously were kind of hazy.
ReplyDeleteThe traditional interpretation of men has long been that the bride will be totally unaware of the coming of the Groom to take us up with Him.
I am saying that based upon the numerous templates provided by Scripture concerning the Harpazo, I can no longer accept that previous interpretation as being entirely accurate.
I think those members of bride of Christ whose lamps are oiled (i.e. filled with the Holy Spirit) will gain foreknowledge of Jesus' coming for us immediately prior to the Harpazo event. We will see His procession coming; we will be ready for His arrival.
Those "bridesmaids" who are not filled with the Holy Spirit - well, these are left behind, they are not caught up, and they will have to rededicate and endure the 70th Week. Martyrdom awaits some, some will make it to the very end of the 70th Week and be eyewitness to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
This is the essential part or essence of the discussion of this discussion which began thanks to Hartdawg's question in the comments section of SITREP E10-15.
I, for one, at this point certainly do hold to a more unambiguous understanding regarding the imminent Harpazo of the bride of Christ from this earth.
jmoll,
ReplyDeleteYes, I believe you ar4e correct, the 24 elders (presbyteros are definitively the bride of Christ. They are redeemed in Christ (white robes). They wear crowns - no angles ever wear crowns. They each sit on a throne surrounding Christ who sits on His throne. This indicates these are the redeemed who rule with Christ, this is a consistent theme throughout The Revelation of Jesus Christ.
These 24 presbyteros wearing white robes and gold crowns who are seated on thrones around Christ on His throne represent the Harpazo bride of Christ according to what Jesus stated in Matthew 19:29 and Luke 22:30. Revelation 4:4 is an image of the Harpazoed bride of Christ in the place He had gone to prepare for them after His ascension into Heaven about 2000 years ago.
Clearly, Revelation 4 illustrates the Harpazo of the Church, and makes Revelation 5 that much clearer and or easy to understand.
Thanks Sean, I had to work last night and on my way home I couldn't help but marvel at the vastness of the heavens on this cold crisp New England evening. Unfortunatly the moving lights were not a heavenly procession but aircraft. Perhaps today.! :)
ReplyDeleteI have a question about Revelation 7:9 - After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
ReplyDeleteone of the ladies in the bible study I attend said, the end cannot happen yet because ALL people from every tribe etc. have to hear the gospel, and because her church has an extensive missionary program, she believes there are many people groups that haven't been reached yet. I think she was talking about Africa and said maybe even 200 different people groups have not heard the gospel. So I guess my question is can the Rapture happen if these people haven't heard the gospel yet?
I just want to say that this has all been a great blessing. Thanks to Sean especially for leading this deep study but also to all of you participating!
ReplyDeleteRhonda,
ReplyDeleteI have heard that teaching as well, but I do not believe it t be true. In Rev 11 we have the two witnesses that the whole world will see, Rev 14 we have the 144,000 that will take the gospel to the world, and ultimately in Rev 14:6, we have the three angels that (I paraphrase) fly through the air carrying the gospel to every tribe, tongue, people, and nation as sort of a last call. We know the harpazo takes place in chapter 4 prior to these events...yes?
Put another way, if this lady from your church can give me the names or locations of those people, I'm sure there are multiple readers of this blog (yourself included as well as me) that would hop on a plane and make it happen if that is the only thing keeping us here....😀! Yes?
Lance
Rhonda,
ReplyDeleteThe only thing necessary for God the Father to send His Son for His bride is for the Father to say "Go!"
Nothing on this earth keeps this from happening except for God the Father's determination that the time is right, which is according to His plan as determined prior to Creation.
Who is it which proclaims the eternal gospel to the whole world? During the 70th Week it will be one angel, followed by two others making profound declarations. See Revelation 14.
Rhonda, I just wanted to say that the Holy Spirit of the Living God can reach people and groups with or without the direct involvement of other human beings - that is how I was saved. I suspect that may be how many other Jewish believers were saved, most Jewish people have traditionally had a very wary view of "christians" because of the atrocities practiced down through the ages by the politically corrupt "christian" churches to whom Jesus wrote the rebukes and admonitions in Revelation. I find it telling that by the end, he has been so far removed that he is actually standing outside the Laodicean church, knocking and trying to get back in! This parallels the biblical history of the Jewish people as well, "For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all." (Romans 11:32) The Holy Spirit reached out to me directly throughout my childhood and early adolescence. My final salvation occurred after a very vivid dream that I was sent in early adulthood about the end of the world, that I knew in my spirit was from God. We don't know what He is doing from day to day, he may be reaching out to these people and groups through other means, especially if this is the time and season for that to occur. Of one thing we can be sure, He will not lose one of the sheep entrusted to Him.
ReplyDeleteI knew she wasn't right but I didn't have the scripture to back my thoughts up.
ReplyDeleteThank you. Revelation 14 is exactly what I needed. Great discussion, fun to read
and learn from others.
I heard pastor Saeed has been released. That true?
ReplyDeleteMany will be suprised in churches across America when they are left behind.
ReplyDelete2 Chor13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
ReplyDeleteJust to add and agree with you Sean,
Paul tells the Ephesian christians in the verses below to be "filled with the Spirit"
Eph 5:15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
This is becoming a never ending discussion....WHICH IS BY FAR MY FAVORITE KIND, here's yet another question, in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 when Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah and like the days of lot where they were eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, planting and building, was he talking about business as usual or something even more implied? The reason why I ask it's because when sodomite marriage passed back in June I had the misfortune of being in Seattle and the whole city was celebrating and carrying on like a bunch of pagans there were eating, drinking, planning and building but it was not business as usual it was eating and drinking in open defiance against God. So when Jesus said eating and drinking planting and building could he have been saying eating and drinking planting and building in open defiance? Just a thought
ReplyDeletehartdawg,
ReplyDeleteYou certainly free believe as you wish regarding the who, why, when and where of God manifesting the Holy Spirit and the TWENTY attendant gifts bestowed by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12 and Ephesians 4) upon the bride of Christ, in full accordance and within the purpose given by Peter (1 Peter 4:10-11).
However, I am here to testify that the Holy Spirit has impressed upon yours truly of late that the "last days" pouring out of the Holy Spirit per Joel 2:28-29 and as repeated verbatim by the Apostle Peter (Acts 2:14-38) is for our day... and our day is "Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord."
Sean, this is one area where my position is forming. Here's a position that I'd like you to think about and comment on when you get a chance, remember, I'm open to correction, and rebuke if necessary, here is a position I'm leaning towards.
DeleteThe sign gifts temporarily ceased with the apostlesame since the jews require a sign but we live by faith. The sign gifts are then poured out once again starting with the last generation in fulfillment of Joel 2 and acts 2. Notice that the outpouring started around the same time as israels rebirth. Just a thought.
hartdawg,
ReplyDeleteWhat Jesus was saying is that sinners will do as sinners will do, be that in the days of Noah or the days of Lot or in the days in which we live now.
Sinners have no reckoning that their destruction comes like a flood and as fire and brimstone falling from the sky -- sinners were oblivious then and so they are again in this day.
And so they shall remain unless we, the bride of Christ, convince them otherwise with our testimony by the power of the Holy Spirit to repent and be saved in the free gift of salvation offered by Christ Jesus.
By the power of the Holy Spirit a Christian would stand above the revelers in Seattle - or wherever - and preach to them as the Spirit would give voice that their doom comes like a flood unless they repent and call on Jesus to save them from it.
jmoll106,
ReplyDeleteAmen Brother! Your citing of Ephesians 5 is what prompted me to include Ephesians 4 in my response above, the message therein is essential.
Sean, Ephesians Chapter 4:1-8 is a very cherished set of verses to me.
ReplyDeleteSome 40 years ago God apprehended me through a series of both natural and supernatural events that brought me to Jesus. They are still that vivid in my heart and soul and no one can ever take that from me. That being said our adversary the devil does all he can to distort and twist the gifts if God. I refuse to be robbed of anything God has for me because the gifts should bear fruit for others.
When a miracle happens to a person, that person knows but others can be skeptics just like Jesus' day. The miracle is from God for that person. God doesn't need to prove himself to anybody. Should we be wise of the hucksters, absolutely. But I agree with you that we should live in His fullness in these final days.
Sorry to wax on so long.
Preach it brother!
ReplyDeletehartdawg,
ReplyDeleteAs I see it, the only reason that the many gifts of the Holy Spirit are not greatly manifest in churches today is because a pitifully small number of Christians are living with the power of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in their daily lives.
If if they are without the power of the Holy Spirit, then the path back into sin is like a piece of metal to a magnet. This is doctrine straight from 2 Timothy 3. This is the reason why I immediately turn away from such wherever and whenever they are revealed to be as such.
At the Harpazo, is not the Restrainer taken out of the way? Is the Holy Spirit the Restrainer? I believe the answer to both questions is a definitive yes!
Therefore, if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way how would it be possible for the Lord to then pour out His Spirit on all flesh during the 70th Week? Seems to me this pouring out is a pre-70th Week blessing and empowerment. I urge everyone to ask of it from the Lord; seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Ezekiel 39:29 speaks of the Lord pouring out His Spirit upon Israel in the past tense (i.e. "I shall have"), and Paul in Romans 11 confirms this. And we have already discussed the "before the day of the Lord" element.
Sean,
ReplyDeleteWhat source do you use to learn the Greek words/definitions?
Thanks,
Lance
In no uncertain terms it has been impressed upon me during the overnight that I made the mistake of allowing discussion here to morph from one of prophetic interpretation to one regarding doctrines.
ReplyDeleteInvariably, as I have learned over the years, doctrinal discussions lead to head banging and division among the participants.
Doctrinal division has no place here, and several comments which delve into doctrinal issues and dissension among participants regarding those doctrines have been removed.
This blog is about current world events as seen through the clarifying lens of the Lord's inerrant prophetic word, and to this purpose I now return the focus of this blog.
Lance,
ReplyDeleteOther than using the Bible to interpret the Bible, when I am studying I use several Greek and Hebrew lexicons and then I turn the lesson over in prayer to allow the Holy Spirit to inform on the original meaning intended if there is any ambiguity or symbolism involved.
Sean,
ReplyDeleteThanks....just asking because I would like to add that to my study as well (the Greek words and meanings). I've not previously done this, and I'm curious how to start.
Lance
If I contributed to any divisions here I deeply apologize. Please forgive me. On a positive note, and getting back to prophecy and the subject at hand, I'm looking for a good church and the church I been visiting, one of the first messages preached was the importance of standing with Israel and a few days ago he preached on discerning the times, the rapture and the need to always be watchful and the judgements that will come after the rapture on those that rejected christ. I rarely here that kind of preaching anymore.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, once again I'm sorry
Hartdawg,
ReplyDeleteThe issue was a problem that I allowed to occur here, so I solved the issue by removing it.
And congratulations on finding that church, I'm sure the Lord led you to it!
Sisters and Brothers,
ReplyDeleteDid any of you watch Pastor JD Farag’s recent Middle-East Update? He said something that made me think a lot. He said he doesn’t think that a global-scale catastrophe of any kind will happen before the Rapture because of Jesus’ description of how “everyday life” will be before His sudden intervention, namely that people are eating and drinking, buying and selling and marrying and it seems that life goes as usual which wouldn’t be the case if something big enough and catastrophic enough happened like a major war or economic meltdown before the Rapture. What do you think about this notion? As for me, I wish Pastor JD would be right in this assumption.
I have a lot of respect for Pastor JD Farag; his video sermons are featured here from time to time.
ReplyDeleteSome aspect of this theme was addressed above, i.e. that sinners (ordinary people) will be doing what sinners (ordinary people) always do and then they'll get swept away by the flood.
And there is also the fact that Jesus' primary sign among the 'birth pangs' in the Olivet Discourse was of wars and rumors of wars, which are always attended by famines and other human suffering.
Such is the case today all over the Middle East, from Syria to Yemen and Somalia to Libya, and beyond. We were within minutes of a shooting war with Iran just days ago, and one may yet erupt.
So, for Pastor JD to virtually cherry pick and extrapolate that into an exegesis holding that no major war will occur prior to the 70th Week ignores the fact that war has been rampant and unceasing in the Middle East since August of 1990. Count 'em, that's 26 years of continuous warfare in the land where the four angels are bound at the Euphrates River.
On this issue I think Pastor JD has misinterpreted the core of what Jesus was saying in Matthew 24:38-39.
Hi Sean, After watching Pastor JD I concur with you. Genesis 6:5 says..
ReplyDeleteAnd GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
With half angel half man/woman wandering around, this world was probably very violent.
Your point of the last 26 years is enough to show it is as the days of Noah and getting worse.
Precisely... as any woman who has given birth will confirm, the pangs of the birthing process are constantly increasing in both frequency and severity over time.
ReplyDeleteYes, I see your point about wars. What about the probability of a global economic meltdown before the Rapture? (Prophecy watchers usually place such a scenario in the Tribulation period and what is written in Revelations it seems to be the case.) If such a meltdown happened, no one would be able to buy and sell, eat and drink (lead a “normal” everyday life) not even ignorant unbelievers.
ReplyDeleteA global economic meltdown is highly probable in the near-term.
ReplyDeleteThe industrialized world's life blood is oil, and as we speak the price of oil is crashing (down 70% in the past year and six months) and China's over-blown but communist controlled economy is teetering on the brink of collapse.
Either of these pressing problems is capable of causing a global economic crash, and combined they are a double whammy because they both can cause a collapse of the global banking system.
However, no one knows what will happen primarily because nothing like this has ever occurred before, so it will be new territory, so to speak.
Now add in a massive quake in Yellowstone, or the US Pacific Coast, or Japan, or you name it anywhere one tectonic plate ruptures against another plate - or have we already forgotten about Japan and its nuclear core meltdowns of the three reactors at Fukushima Daiichi?
There's a half-dozen or more critical items around the world which could cause a natural and economic disaster without warning.
Sean,
ReplyDeleteIt’s a good thing you mentioned oil because there’s another issue I was wondering about. I’ve read a report not long ago which assumed that one of the reasons of the record low oil prices is that certain economic actors want Russia to collapse economically. In that case Russia would leave the Middle-East and wouldn’t be able to operate militarily anymore. What do you think about such a scenario? In the light of the Ezekiel 38/39 battle I couldn’t imagine a Russian economic collapse (that makes them militarily useless). I know that there are people who think that because of its bad economy Russia&Co. will attack Israel for gas&oil as a spoil but I can’t imagine that an economically destroyed country even as big as Russia would be able to collect and maintain such a formidable and waste army the Ezekiel prophecy talks about. To me it seems much more likely that Russia remains alive and kicking while something has to happen NOT to Russia but to the Western powers (mostly to the USA since in a military sense the EU is a joke right now) render them totally unable to do anything militarily in the future concerning the Ezekiel 38/39 battle, and Israel’s conclusive (psalm 83) wars with her neighbors.
....but still, I must say that even with all these very real possibilities, the Christian is not too worry. Awareness, yes. Fear NO!
ReplyDeleteOn my part it’s more of curiosity instead of worry. I’d really like to know what could happen to Russia because of the low oil prices and how things could turn out for the West since it is the West that must be weakened not Russia in light of future prophetic battles in the Middle-East. I’d like to ask for the insight of anyone who’d reply to my question. I know we could only make assumptions but I’m still curious.
ReplyDeleteHey sean, here's one final thought/comment that I had, and let's see if you agree with this or not, any position, other than the pretrib position, whether it's mid-trib, post-trib, post-trib but pre-wrath, ANY position other than pre-trib, is a position of abandonedment,because it ultimately teaches that God will abandon you to face his wrath. Which directly contradicts God's promise of "I will never leave you nor forsake you". Not only is it a position of abandonment, people who teach those other positions are thieves because they steal your crown. Do you think that my thoughts on this are way too harsh? I hope I'm not too harsh
ReplyDeleteI went back and read Luke 21:22-28 and it certainly says the same thing. The order of events for the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of the jews to all nations. Then the gentiles trodding down Jerusalem til the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. Perplexity of nations, people living in fear, the the signs in the heavens, then we look up, lift up our heads for our redemption draws nigh.
ReplyDeleteVery insightful. Worthy of much prayer.
Thanks Sean and I am thankful all that shoveling didn't send you home to the Lord. :)
And as you mentioned, It was very clear to Noah what was happening, he heard with his ears, he saw with his eyes.
ReplyDeleteSean,
ReplyDeleteI think this fits into the separation you make between the 5 virgins... The distinction Paul uses via simple "they", "them" vs. "you" is quite vivid when you pay attention to it.
It creates a remarkable distinction between the believers and the world.
One Thessalonians 5 (yes... I was smiling when I did that. )
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
Ken B
Has anyone else experienced a new sense of urgency later. Every night when I'm getting into bed I think, is this the night? Every morning when I wake up I look
ReplyDeleteout the window and visualize Jesus stahding on a cloud with a trumpet. Then this
happened. A week ago from today I woke up with a pain in my neck that just kept
getting worse. The next day I made an appt with a chiropractor. When he took my
blood pressure it was 210/1?? He called my doctor's office which told me to go
to the emergency room right away. So now I'm on BP meds and its still not down. I guess this is Satan trying to take my mind off Jesus' soon return and also make me question my faith because I'm scared! People are telling me those are stroke or heart attack numbers. I hate having anxiety and worry and know its not from God. Satan really knows are weaknesses. He has me questioning my own faith and I hate him for that!!!
Rhonda, You will certainly be in our prayers.
DeleteShovel? I bought a Troy-Bilt Storm 2410 snowblower. Gotta be smarter than the snow! LOL.
ReplyDeleteSean,
ReplyDeleteI did some time (not literally) in Oregon, and I haven't missed shoveling since.
Your post script is more than encouraging. I noticed the moon two nights ago....it was brighter & more vivid than I remember in some time (nothing extraordinary....just an awesome sight).
I am constellationally challenged...why Orion?
Lance
Nice! 208cc OHV troybilt engine. That will last to the harpazo. :)
ReplyDeleteLance,
ReplyDeleteWhy Orion?
It's an impression I have had for quite some time, and its based upon the Genesis account regarding the Creation of the stars (stars, galaxies, nebulae, etc) and their very ancient Divine purpose (Genesis 1:14) of our vantage point on the earth, emphasis added:
"And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years…"
God named ALL of the stars. Psalm 147:4
The stars proclaim His handiwork. Psalm 19:1
God arranged their groupings into constellations for the purpose of Genesis 1:14.
This is something I studied a long time ago, the Hebrew version of the 12 constellations of the zodiac, the Mazzaroth, regards an ancient story in the sky that is told through the images of the 12 constellations, that is, the Mazzaroth (Constellations) in sequence and sum tell the story of the redemption of mankind.
For example:
Virgo - the virgin bearing the promised seed of the Redeemer.
Libra – The scales; the price deficient balanced by the price that covers (the Lambs blood).
Scorpio – The scorpion; the attack of the enemy; the redeemer's conflict.
Sagittarius – (a/k/a Orion) The archer; the gracious one; the Redeemer's triumph.
Leo - the Lion of the tribe of Judah (Jesus). (Revelation 5:5)
..and so on. Check out the Mazzaroth some time: http://www.blogos.org/thinkabout/mazzaroth.html
But why Orion? It is among the principle of the constellations discussed in His Word. Job 9:9, 26:13 and 38:31-32. Also, Amos 5:8. When I look up at night this time of year, my eyes quickly fix upon Orion. It is automatic from late August to the start of spring.
Also, Isaiah 13:6-10. Joel 3:15. And as we've already discussed, Matthew 24:29.
Seems to me that any signs coming from these stars will have to come prior to the 70th Week, while we, the bride of Christ, are here to see them and the sign that they are to provide. Make no mistake, the stars are NOT to be worshiped (Deuteronomy 4:19, and there is no astrology within any of what I am saying her.
Just the opposite and in complete accordance with Scripture.
Hi Sean, thanks for all your input and study on this site! I too have been intrigued by the biblical account of the constellations. I found this link to a site, The Great Sign of Revelation 12 occurs in 2017 "Now a great sign appeared in heaven:
ReplyDeletea woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet,
and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth."
REVELATION 12:1-2
http://2010rapture.org/1260tetrad.html
Your thoughts? Thanks! Jeff
thanks for the prayers jmoll106. No, Sean, none of what I'm going through started
ReplyDeletewith shoveling snow. The emergency room was Friday night and they let us go when the
snow was just starting. My husband and boys did the shoveling the next day. Really I just wanted to thank you for the addition to the article about God giving us a warning before the harpazo. For some reason I thought my story of what had just happened to me was relevant to your addition but now I fail to see how. I don't
think God is going to warn us He is on His way with high blood pressure! I've been
a little confused as of late.
Hey sean, I can't fine one single verse that tells us we can't possibly know when he will come, (the season, not the day or hour). Unless I'm mistaken, every passage that says or implies that he'll come unexpectedly is talking about unbelievers, and those not looking.
ReplyDeleteRhonda,
ReplyDeleteSatan has no control over your physical body! As one of the bride of Christ it is an impossibility.
Your body, as the Bible teaches us, is a temple and God resides within it in the person of the Holy Spirit once we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. (I Corinthians 6:19-20)
Yes, all bride of Christ bodies are holy temples, all are a creation of God the Father, Christ the only begotten Son has redeemed them all through His Blood, and the Holy Spirit is resident therein all of the bride of Christ.
As Dr, Reagan wrote about our salvation we know are saved, and we can have complete confidence our salvation through Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1 and I John 1:7. 4:17, 5:13 & 5:19). Therefore you have nothing to fear no matter what happens. Your body can be healed, all we (you and we your brethren) need do is offer you up in prayer to the Lord to heal what it is which is causing high BP in your body.
Let us all pray for Rhonda's medical healing and claim it for her in Jesus Holy Name!
hartdawg,
ReplyDeleteYes, exactly what I have also come to learn and it is an extraordinarily significant thing to learn after having been taught for so long something which His Word does not teach us!
Sean:
ReplyDeleteI believe your absolutely correct, "The Groom IS coming for his Bride"! No
doubts from me either. I watch and wait everyday and pray Maranatha!
Like you I do think we the bride will receive or see some indications o
his coming but wonder how long before. Soon and very soon is the song.
thank you all for your prayers it means so much to me to have people I don't even know praying for me. I was at the doctors office today and my blood pressure is coming down. Praise be to God answering prayers and loving us so much. I can't
ReplyDeletewait until we hear those words, "Come up hither!" And then we are with the One that
we love and loves us back forever. I feel so much better. Thanks
P.S. Thanks Sean for reminding me nothing of mine is under Satan's control. He was defeated at the foot of the cross!
Rhonda - Amen sister!
ReplyDeleteKenneth - I look at wondering how much longer as a daily reminder to remain focused on being a watchman on the wall because we're without a doubt in the season and the signs are everywhere!
It’s been a good while (many years have passed) since I started to pray regularly for the rapture to happen as soon as it is possible. My assumption is that the Lord already knows who will belong to the Church and my hope is that He could quicken and accelerate events to bring all these people into the fold more quickly, bringing the rapture closer this way. Moreover, there’s this promise in the Bible which says in case two or more believers agree on a thing and ask this thing in prayer from the Lord, He’ll surely grant their wish (if it’s in sync with His will of course). I discussed this topic with a very close friend who’s also a believer and we started praying together for a soon rapture. (It’s also been a while since we started.)
ReplyDeleteI’d like to know what Sean and all my other brothers and sisters think about this. Are there others as well who regularly pray for the rapture to happen as soon as possible? And/or, are there groups of Christians who pray this way for the rapture?
OMHO, We can pray Marana'tha or thy kingdom come, but I personally try to not go beyond that. When the last person to be part of the bride comes in it will be right on time. Maranatha! :)
ReplyDeleteNora,
ReplyDeleteI waited for a day or so to se if anyone else would respond to your questions before offering a response. Pardon the pun, but there will be no more tarrying in providing the response to your questions.
Nora's Questions: "Are there others as well who regularly pray for the rapture to happen as soon as possible? And/or, are there groups of Christians who pray this way for the rapture?"
The Eschatology Today Response: The answer to both questions is yes, and yes.
Jesus taught us to pray to our heavenly Father by pouring out our heart(s) to Him.
In the example of prayer He gave to us, the words immediately following the opening glorification of our Father's Name include a direct reference to His coming, for the coming of His Kingdom cannot come without His coming for His bride first.
Therefore, everyone who recites the Lord's Prayer also recites a call for His coming.
Yet He wants us to pray freely our heart's desire in whatever words the Holy Spirit may lead us with; just open your voice and let the words flow forth like a natural spring.
There is nothing like praying in the Spirit, and in so doing there is no doubt that beseeching our Father to send His Son for His bride is a natural part of that prayer also.
That's very comforting to know, thanks for your answer Sean!
ReplyDeleteJeffrey Richards,
ReplyDeleteIt came to my attention that I've not properly addressed your comment above.
A little over two years ago I posted this blog item:
Does Revelation 12 Point to a Specific Day in the Near Future?
The comments section is also a must read.
Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs!
I just briefly read the comments section on the mentioned post. Have your thoughts on that changed or "updated" at all? I'm wondering if you'd consider reposting it as an update, since that time is rapidly approaching. Just a year and a half.
ReplyDelete"as in the days of Noah"... https://www.timesofisrael.com/dutch-christian-boatmaker-to-sail-his-life-size-replica-of-noahs-ark-to-israel/
ReplyDelete